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View Full Version : Save Vs Trip? does it actually exist?



FrostBeard
06-30-2007, 05:55 AM
Heres a level 4 character with 20 str or +5 to saves vs trip/improved trip
in combat i was fighting a worg thats cr 5
this is what happened:

(Combat): You are hit by worg's improved trip.
(Combat): You have been tripped and have a -4 penalty to your AC while on the ground.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus improved trip. You roll a 10 (+5): strength failure!

-------several lines of beat down killing me.

(Combat): Worg's improved trip has been removed.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus improved trip. You roll a 6 (+9): balance success!

Few Things here

why do we take the damage or failure and then then get the save roll text.
is that lag?

How come trip is so powerful even at such low level monsters.
i mean rolling a 10 +5 thats 15 geez!

I guess my question is, was trip supposed to work like this, even at high levels its very powerful, dont let me get into 'broken' pvp.

AEschyl
06-30-2007, 09:05 AM
yes there is a save, it simply lists the order of things wrong in the combat text, much like when you die - it lists the removal of all of your buffs before it displays the text indicating the killing blow.

the save is based on either your strength mod or your dexterity mod, whichever is greater

and trip isn't really that powerful, certain mobs simply get a bonus to their trip attempts (especially those that have improved trip as an ability) and turbine is smart enough that the creatures with low tripping ability don't make trip attempts. therefore, when you do have to save vs trip, you're going up against a creature designed for that ability (worgs, jariliths, bezekiras, wolfs, etc)

The_Cataclysm
06-30-2007, 09:09 AM
For the difficulty, you might want to notice that it was an improved trip, not a regular.

As for things being in the wrong order. The game does this quite a bit. If you will notice when you die your buffs are listed as being stripped before it lists you taking the final damage that kills you.

AEschyl
06-30-2007, 09:15 AM
For the difficulty, you might want to notice that it was an improved trip, not a regular.

As for things being in the wrong order. The game does this quite a bit. If you will notice when you die your buffs are listed as being stripped before it lists you taking the final damage that kills you.

lol, beat ya to it :p

Serverdown
06-30-2007, 09:19 AM
Running through tangleroot on a level 14 barbarian I noticed the same coincidence. CR 5 mobs tripping me on fairly high rolls. With a 15 strength modifier I should rarely be tripped, even against higher level mobs, however it seems like anything can trip me no matter what cr it is.

Ghoste
06-30-2007, 09:43 AM
10 Base DC
+4 improved trip
=14
All that worg needs is a str bonus of +2 to beat your roll of 15.

The roll to get back up is a balance check.

My fighter's trip DC is currently 36, and im expecting it to be up to 40 soon. At 36 it takes a str score (or dex) of 44 just to save on a roll of 19 against that.

AEschyl
06-30-2007, 09:51 AM
yup, good trippers sacrifice good-damage during those trip attempts to be able to do so, and if you have a high balance... you're gonna be up on your feet again before he has a chance to swap to a good weapon to finish you off with.

just make sure you kill him before his trip timer resets :p

LIMBUS
06-30-2007, 10:16 AM
yup, good trippers sacrifice good-damage during those trip attempts to be able to do so, and if you have a high balance... you're gonna be up on your feet again before he has a chance to swap to a good weapon to finish you off with.

just make sure you kill him before his trip timer resets :p


Unless its a jarilith!

AEschyl
06-30-2007, 10:23 AM
well, if it's a jarilith - pull out your double-banishers... put on your balance +13 item... and swing away praying! :D

Stormanne
06-30-2007, 10:53 AM
Jariliths are nothing as long as you are lucky and wield a vorpal...emphasis on lucky. Ran PoP last night, made the run for a couple of party members. When I went to jump onto the crystallized dragon bridge, I missed and ran into the jariliths at the bottom. Started swinging madly and got three consecutive 20's that were confirmed crit. So, all in all, a good vorpal and some good luck will get you out of a tight spot way more often than a good save table....lol

Rog
07-01-2007, 05:18 AM
my low level goes against improved trip by the doggies they eat me does not matter that my str was 24 at the time i am just dog food to them why do they get improved trip again. five minutes laying on the ground i die have a lot of hitpoints u know takes them a while
lunarsong
from the mystrous realms of khyber

JD2134
07-02-2007, 12:49 AM
1ST I think the save for trip should be based off ones balance, While the roll to stand back up should be based on your str. Come one we trip cause we lose our balance and we stand back up when we have enough str.. Case in point get drunk lose you balance fall down

Riggs
07-02-2007, 01:01 AM
Most monsters still dont need to hit to trip. And get Improved Trip as well.

Overrun is also way overpowered.

Part of AC is dodging ability. If a monster doesnt hit you it shouldnt be able to trip you.

Since monsters have much higher stat scores than players, it is a lot harder to trip a monster than for a monster to trip a player.

Cowdenicus
07-02-2007, 01:35 AM
10 Base DC
+4 improved trip
=14
All that worg needs is a str bonus of +2 to beat your roll of 15.

The roll to get back up is a balance check.

My fighter's trip DC is currently 36, and im expecting it to be up to 40 soon. At 36 it takes a str score (or dex) of 44 just to save on a roll of 19 against that.

Actually he siad his mod was 15, not his roll.

wraith87
07-02-2007, 01:41 AM
Actually he siad his mod was 15, not his roll.

To be fair, I think he was talking about the OP.

Sometimes it's just bad luck that you get tripped...much like a paladin dying from a finger of death or whatnot. 1's happen :) .

Cowdenicus
07-02-2007, 02:32 AM
oh i know that feeling, look at my loot pulls.

Racolus
07-02-2007, 04:20 AM
Well, the first roll against the trip is a STRENGTH check, which is much harder to improve, it is a roll that just add your str mod.

The second is a balance skill check, which can be modified by skill rank, item mod and feat, along with ability. This check, needless to say, is much easier.

Hence, everyone falls easily, prior to the AE trip correction, the red lions in Gianthold can trip few players at the same time. The difference is how quick they get up.

IMO, balance check should replace the the first check as well, for consistency sake.

Balthazar_No_Oni
07-02-2007, 06:12 AM
Well, the first roll against the trip is a STRENGTH check, which is much harder to improve, it is a roll that just add your str mod.

The second is a balance skill check, which can be modified by skill rank, item mod and feat, along with ability. This check, needless to say, is much easier.

Hence, everyone falls easily, prior to the AE trip correction, the red lions in Gianthold can trip few players at the same time. The difference is how quick they get up.

IMO, balance check should replace the the first check as well, for consistency sake.

Its actually a str or DEX check, whichever is higher.

wraith87
07-02-2007, 10:42 AM
And if we're playing this game now, if they fail their trip attempt and don't have some ability stating they get to trip for free, then we get to try to trip them back...unless they drop whatever weapon they were using ;) .

For example...the hobgoblins with their darned pikes.

Netminder69
07-02-2007, 02:52 PM
1ST I think the save for trip should be based off ones balance, While the roll to stand back up should be based on your str. Come one we trip cause we lose our balance and we stand back up when we have enough str.. Case in point get drunk lose you balance fall down

hat's not how tripping works in D&D though. It's a touch attack by the tripper (although I don't think DDO implemented it as a touch attack, probably because of nbo Attacks of Opportunity in DOO) followed by an opposed STR vs. STR or DEX roll.

The worst thing about how it's implemente dis how the critters spam the tripping when you're on the ground. Once you're prone, you SHOULD NOT be able to be tripped again. They keep doign it though.

Also, critters shouldnt' have the improved trip feat. They should have the imp. trip critter ability where they get a free chance to trip IF THEY HIT.

Big surprise that isn't implemented correctly. :confused:

Drfirewater79
07-02-2007, 03:15 PM
dont know if its been mentioned cause i didnt feel this thread was really worth the reply that i am feeling nice enough to give

the saves you posted are the save vs trip which is a strength check

and the save to get up which is a balance check

the trip save is against your strength alone although i am totally against it not being also a reflex save (cause if your reflexes are good enough you should beable to dodge a trip attempt) and if you only have a 20 str you should be lucky you dont trip on a 15 or lower cause only the lowest dc's in dnd are 10 and 15 most dc's are 20 or 25+

meaning if you have a str check to make with a +5 str mod you will need to roll somewhere between 15-20

where are a fighter lets say

non 32 point build 28 str +2 madstone rage boots +2 madstone rage clicky +2 rage pot = 34 str giving a +12 str mod would only have to roll 8-13 to save against trip

however they made the balance check lower so if you have the invaders ring (most people above lvl 11 have it) or the hobnail boots from CO6 then you have at least a 13 balance so a dc 15 balance check means you only have to roll 2 or more unless your not wearing your ring to get up from the trip

most fighters who think things through when building there toons put there points into balance or jump or both so most fighters who get tripped make there first save if there wearing a balance item

however you cannot make a balance check till you have actually fallen cause the save is to see if you slip and fall again while tring to get up in combat its there way of giving an attack of oppertunity to the trip victim

this works both for and against us cause they have to make a str check too

the argument for this should have been why is it that you as i assume a bard or battlecaster of some type if you have a 20 str or lower then lvl 7 (in that case cr 5's are not that much lower then you that they should not beable to trip you) can be a victim of trip with such saves and yet a bad guy wizard or cleric or other non str based classes manage to save trips so easy

if i am not mistaken (and i dont believe i am this time) isnt trip a opposed str check meaning if his str +20 sided dice is lower then my str +20 sided dice then he fails to trip me

i might be wrong maybe its only opposed strength for grapple so if so ignore the last comment lol

hope this helps for more information purchase a Dnd 3.5 players handbook found at most books stores or online at the wizards of the coast website of which you can link from ddo's main page

its about 30-50 dollars depending on used or new and shipping

Roguewiz
07-02-2007, 03:24 PM
www.d20srd.com

A quick resource to most things DnD.

Lebrac
07-03-2007, 11:34 AM
Can anyone out there tell me what the BEST save vs Trip is? this is a very easy ?.....






Just for the answer for all u ppl that will answer wrong... it's ARMOR CLASSS!!!!! if they ca'nt hit u they can't Trip u. 100% that's the best save for trip.

Mad_Bombardier
07-03-2007, 11:35 AM
Just for the answer for all u ppl that will answer wrong... it's ARMOR CLASSS!!!!! if they ca'nt hit u they can't Trip u. 100% that's the best save for trip.For Giant's Knockdown and Wolf trip, yes. But for Hobgoblins, who STILL do not have to roll to hit you to process a trip, high STR or DEX is your only option.

Balthazar_No_Oni
07-03-2007, 12:35 PM
Lebrak,

The save for trip is a str or DEX check, whichever has a higher mod. Not just a str check.

The check to stand is a balance check.