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View Full Version : Trading items for items in game!! a myth?



FrostBeard
06-26-2007, 05:39 PM
heres an issue, never been resolved and probably never will.

i want to trade x item for y item.
why cant i do this in game?

why do i have to exit game go to ddo forums post item log back to game play game for some time then log out of game check to see if someone responded.

isnt this just silly?

if i try putting up an item for trade in the looking for group (the most logical and easiest place for people to see, not that it anoys anyone either.)

This is what happens.

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'Please remove your LFM comment as we do not allow players to buy/trade/sell in the Social panel.'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'sorry whys that'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'The Social panel is intended for players to group, not to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'how do we trade items then'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'You can use the server specific Marketplace forums to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'correct that how do we trade items in game where most ppl play'

unfortunately +Sparker didnt think responding after that was worth doing.

OK ADDED THIS BECAUSE PPL NEED IT TO BE CLEAR
---------------------------------------------------
(we need to be able to trade items for items IN GAME, why in game? so we can enjoy the game not the forums, its alot faster too.)
(and! let people know what we are trading. why? so we can communicate.)

Please Give us this ability GM's so we can do this

Conejo
06-26-2007, 05:58 PM
if i try putting up an item for trade in the looking for group (the most logical and easiest place for people to see, not that it anoys anyone either.)


how is "LOOKING FOR GROUP" a logical place to trade?

also, guess what, you annoyed people and they reported you for it, hence why +Sparker told you to take it down.

also not allowed: posting the same thread in multiple places. so i'm going to request the admins lock this one down.

Mercules
06-26-2007, 06:13 PM
heres an issue, never been resolved and probably never will.

i want to trade x item for y item.
why cant i do this in game?

why do i have to exit game go to ddo forums post item log back to game play game for some time then log out of game check to see if someone responded.

isnt this just silly?

if i try putting up an item for trade in the looking for group (the most logical and easiest place for people to see, not that it anoys anyone either.)

This is what happens.

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'Please remove your LFM comment as we do not allow players to buy/trade/sell in the Social panel.'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'sorry whys that'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'The Social panel is intended for players to group, not to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'how do we trade items then'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'You can use the server specific Marketplace forums to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'correct that how do we trade items in game where most ppl play'

unfortunately +Sparker didnt think responding after that was worth doing.

OK ADDED THIS BECAUSE PPL NEED IT TO BE CLEAR
---------------------------------------------------
(we need to be able to trade items for items IN GAME, why in game? so we can enjoy the game not the forums, its alot faster too.)
(and! let people know what we are trading. why? so we can communicate.)

Please Give us this ability GM's so we can do this

I think you are looking for this key combo... "Alt-Tab" There, now you can play DDO, switch to the forum window to check your trade thread, and switch back to DDO without shutting it down. Basic Windows skills are a plus for those that use Windows OS computers.:D

Uska
06-26-2007, 06:17 PM
heres an issue, never been resolved and probably never will.

i want to trade x item for y item.
why cant i do this in game?

why do i have to exit game go to ddo forums post item log back to game play game for some time then log out of game check to see if someone responded.

isnt this just silly?

if i try putting up an item for trade in the looking for group (the most logical and easiest place for people to see, not that it anoys anyone either.)

This is what happens.

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'Please remove your LFM comment as we do not allow players to buy/trade/sell in the Social panel.'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'sorry whys that'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'The Social panel is intended for players to group, not to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'how do we trade items then'

(Admin): +Sparker tells you, 'You can use the server specific Marketplace forums to trade items'

(Tell): You tell +Sparker, 'correct that how do we trade items in game where most ppl play'

unfortunately +Sparker didnt think responding after that was worth doing.

OK ADDED THIS BECAUSE PPL NEED IT TO BE CLEAR
---------------------------------------------------
(we need to be able to trade items for items IN GAME, why in game? so we can enjoy the game not the forums, its alot faster too.)
(and! let people know what we are trading. why? so we can communicate.)

Please Give us this ability GM's so we can do this



While you may need a place to trade items it does annoy most everyone if you put it in lfm dont kid yourself about that

Falco_Easts
06-26-2007, 06:18 PM
This topic has been ran to death over the last week or so.
LFM is not the most logical place to advertise for a trade. It is just annoying.
There is a place to trade ingame, it's called the AH.
As was stated, ALT-TAB is your friend to use both forums and game if you want to.

Gimpster
06-26-2007, 06:38 PM
LFM is not the most logical place to advertise for a trade. It is just annoying.
There is a place to trade ingame, it's called the AH.
The auction house is utterly incapable of supporting trading.

The most effective in-game place to trade is LFM. That's not the intended purpose, and it's not optimal, but it's the best there is.

narizue
06-26-2007, 06:59 PM
The auction house is utterly incapable of supporting trading.

The most effective in-game place to trade is LFM. That's not the intended purpose, and it's not optimal, but it's the best there is.

I disagree. The least disruptive, least annoying place to do it is still on the social panel however. Its the comments section of the who list. For example "LTT +1 Paralyzing Longsword" as the comment there does not clutter the LFM screen with junk trade posts, but still advertises your interest in trading. Bios are a less effective means, but they still work. Beyond that ALT+Enter.

Tat2Freak
06-26-2007, 07:53 PM
...make a tab on the panel right next to LFM that is LTT...enough said.

sieg33
06-27-2007, 05:52 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that most GMs do not just go around looking for ppl with an LFM up with trade requests. That ppl actually have to tell a GM before they know about it. You're lucky(the OP I mean) that u didn't get banned.

Zorth
06-27-2007, 05:58 AM
Post that your trading after you get a party started. The gm cannot do anything about it then. If they do, then they don't know what we really want and must make a way for us to trade. There is power in numbers. Make sure you have a dungeon listed in the second box and that everyone in your party is actually doing that quest. Once you get 6 people well then who cares anymore and your doing the quest then anyway. An ad like that could last 30 minutes or 5 minutes. Who cares you still got your ad out and the rest in your party are still playing the game.

Conejo
06-27-2007, 06:26 AM
Post that your trading after you get a party started. The gm cannot do anything about it then. If they do, then they don't know what we really want and must make a way for us to trade. There is power in numbers. Make sure you have a dungeon listed in the second box and that everyone in your party is actually doing that quest. Once you get 6 people well then who cares anymore and your doing the quest then anyway. An ad like that could last 30 minutes or 5 minutes. Who cares you still got your ad out and the rest in your party are still playing the game.

just because you are no longer looking for more doesn't mean you automatically get some sort of free ride to put your spam up in the LFMs. why would you give bad advice like that?

Vinos
06-27-2007, 06:32 AM
The reason for the GM's getting on to you about has nothing to do whatsoever with the fact it "annoys" people. Why it annoys them is beyond me as there is at most 1 or 2 up in a LFM screen with maybe 6-7 teams looking for more. I actually like to read trade messages. Usually so I can laugh at the guy who wants a +6 dex ring for his +6 INT googles. The reason is they have the AH and that is the method for eliminating plat from the economy. That is the reason LFM's for trade are not allowed and the reason they will NEVER have a trading window.

Zorth
06-27-2007, 06:43 AM
just because you are no longer looking for more doesn't mean you automatically get some sort of free ride to put your spam up in the LFMs. why would you give bad advice like that?

You missed what I said, You are LFM. and you can post a trade ad that way.

Gol
06-27-2007, 09:28 AM
Argonnessen has taken to using Gianthold as a trading area, with people just Ctrl+Ving their trades every 5 minutes or so. Works for me, at any rate.

JosephKell
06-27-2007, 09:58 AM
The GMs are trying to prevent proliferation of using LFM to do trades. If they don't make an effort to remove such messages more people will make them.

Personally, if there were a way to set the levels to 0-0 (basically out of the regular sorting of levels) I would be fine with it. I don't see if very often (probably because people are told to take them down), but the few I have make me laugh.

Like one yesterday (or the day before). This newb wizard (zergs ahead, leads large trains back to the group, charms mobs that can one shot him, fireballs his foes) who was in the same group as me (for the second time) made an excuse to leave, he said, "I have an unexpected need to leave. Bye." Then minutes later I saw his "reason" was to put up a LFM saying, "Looking to trade for UMD item." The group got a huge kick off that (especially after I mentioned his playing style) because UMD items tend to be bind on acquire (unless you count Charisma items or items of command).

Conejo
06-27-2007, 10:06 AM
You missed what I said, You are LFM. and you can post a trade ad that way.

you miss the point: posting for trades in the LFM is against Turbine policy and can result in getting banned.

Talcyndl
06-27-2007, 10:28 AM
The reason for the GM's getting on to you about has nothing to do whatsoever with the fact it "annoys" people. Why it annoys them is beyond me as there is at most 1 or 2 up in a LFM screen with maybe 6-7 teams looking for more. I actually like to read trade messages. Usually so I can laugh at the guy who wants a +6 dex ring for his +6 INT googles. The reason is they have the AH and that is the method for eliminating plat from the economy. That is the reason LFM's for trade are not allowed and the reason they will NEVER have a trading window.

So you honestly think Turbine's doing this solely to pull Plat out of the game? Not at all because a bunch of people are annoyed by it? And not because if they didn't have the rule (and didn't enforce it) the Grouping window would be increasingly cluttered with trades and all but useless for its intended purpose?

Vinos
06-27-2007, 10:45 AM
So you honestly think Turbine's doing this solely to pull Plat out of the game? Not at all because a bunch of people are annoyed by it? And not because if they didn't have the rule (and didn't enforce it) the Grouping window would be increasingly cluttered with trades and all but useless for its intended purpose?

Sure GM's have to respond to people complaining but the REASON they don't have a trade window is because of the AH. They need to pull plat out of the economy and if they had a window then why would anyone use the AH.

Mad_Bombardier
06-27-2007, 10:51 AM
You can also add trade info to Comments on the WHO tab (provided you are not anonymous). It erases with each login, so it forces you to keep info up to date with each gaming session. And AFAIK, there have not been any posts about GM action for trade info in the WHO tab.

JosephKell
06-27-2007, 10:58 AM
Sure GM's have to respond to people complaining but the REASON they don't have a trade window is because of the AH. They need to pull plat out of the economy and if they had a window then why would anyone use the AH.Because if you put up a trade window people will start begging. OR you get interrupted while on an adventure, sure you might not leave the instance to handle it immediately, but you will definitely stop to respond to a tell (or to type /ignore add <newb trying to con you>).

The AH allows a person to go offline or into an adventure instead of having to stick around in town waiting for that perfect offer. Unfortunately you can't set up an "item-item" trade in the AH.

However, I suppose LTT could be set up. I'll make a new thread describing my idea.

Talcyndl
06-27-2007, 11:22 AM
Sure GM's have to respond to people complaining but the REASON they don't have a trade window is because of the AH. They need to pull plat out of the economy and if they had a window then why would anyone use the AH.

Regardless of why they don't have a seperate trade window - and I think it has much more to do with time and development resources - the reason they enforce the no trade in the grouping window is because it annoys people and, unchecked, would make the window useless for its intended purpose.

Mercules
06-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Post that your trading after you get a party started. The gm cannot do anything about it then. If they do, then they don't know what we really want and must make a way for us to trade. There is power in numbers. Make sure you have a dungeon listed in the second box and that everyone in your party is actually doing that quest. Once you get 6 people well then who cares anymore and your doing the quest then anyway. An ad like that could last 30 minutes or 5 minutes. Who cares you still got your ad out and the rest in your party are still playing the game.

Yes they can and they do. It is still not allowed. I was invited to one of those LFMs that had a trading addendum on it. I reported them and watched it vanish with only 3 players in it. Turbine has told you where it is acceptable to trade and not trade and LFM, no matter what little tricks you try to make it legitimate.

-=WE=- do not really care if people can trade in game. -=YOU=- do so stop speaking for me. I care that I don't have to look through a bunch of bogus LFMs to find groups. Yes, you might have a quest listed, but soon we will have people with the, "Durk's on elite. Trading para longsword for para 2Her." with a level range from 1-14 and a mule character from another account in the group to make it "legit".

Vinos
06-27-2007, 12:36 PM
Regardless of why they don't have a seperate trade window - and I think it has much more to do with time and development resources - the reason they enforce the no trade in the grouping window is because it annoys people and, unchecked, would make the window useless for its intended purpose.

They can fix the friend window 10 times they can make a trade window. They won't make one becuase no one will use the AH. On the other part you're right in that if unenforced it could be alot worse.

Talcyndl
06-27-2007, 12:59 PM
They can fix the friend window 10 times they can make a trade window. They won't make one becuase no one will use the AH. On the other part you're right in that if unenforced it could be alot worse.

As pointed out earlier, the trade window would not replace the auction house for most stuff. Perhaps for some of the big high end items, but not the vast majority of the "that's cool, too bad I can't really use it" items that people put up.

Vi'Aed
06-27-2007, 01:37 PM
In response to the concept that posted LTT messages in LFM are not an annoyance... bull-flop. I find it very very irritating. ESPECIALLY when the level range is set to 1-14. Then it shows up in my LFM window as a group I can join. Genrally if one is in there, I will suck it up, but as soon as a second one pops up I am reporting them both. If I want to find a group I don't want to be plowing through your ads to find it. I find it more obnoxious that the plat spammers, but that is just me.

I have also taken to recording names of those I've reported in the reporting subj line so I can tell if I've reported the same guy before. 'Cause I'll definitely want to make a note that the same guy has been reported, by me, multiple times.

So yes, I will stand up and say "I report LFM trade spammers."

Yes trading could be accomodated in game with very minor modifications, but the concept of creating a use for plat in the game is a very valid one.

Vinos
06-27-2007, 01:47 PM
As pointed out earlier, the trade window would not replace the auction house for most stuff. Perhaps for some of the big high end items, but not the vast majority of the "that's cool, too bad I can't really use it" items that people put up.

If you mean the Str +2 heal +5 bracers and other things no one bids on then yes that will stay on the AH but anything worthwhile or expensive would be on the trade window. Any stat item +5 or better, and "power 5 weapons, named items, any non scepter magi item, good potency items, +3 or better mithral full plate, scales, relics, grater or major mem pots, any good bursting weapon, greater bane weapons, striders 20% or better, resistance +4 or better, the list goes on and on of items that WOULD be used in a trade window.

JosephKell
06-27-2007, 01:49 PM
Yes trading could be accomodated in game with very minor modifications, but the concept of creating a use for plat in the game is a very valid one.Like Buying Wands of Cure Serious Wounds to give to clerics? Or Repairing items?

Talcyndl
06-27-2007, 02:00 PM
If you mean the Str +2 heal +5 bracers and other things no one bids on then yes that will stay on the AH but anything worthwhile or expensive would be on the trade window. Any stat item +5 or better, and "power 5 weapons, named items, any non scepter magi item, good potency items, +3 or better mithral full plate, scales, relics, grater or major mem pots, any good bursting weapon, greater bane weapons, striders 20% or better, resistance +4 or better, the list goes on and on of items that WOULD be used in a trade window.


If you anticipate that much stuff being put up, I assume you would expect Turbine to include a search/filter feature. And how would it be handled when folks are offline? Would the trade only post when you are on? And could people post WTB posts? And would you have to 'attach' the item you are posting about? Or could you keep the item in your inventory. And if you forget to take down the post, does it expire after a certain time? And what about all the issues I couldn't think of in 20 seconds of rambling?

Point being, it's not as straightforward an undertaking as you seem to think. I too think it would be a nice feature. But I'm not paranoid enough to assume they haven't added this solely to "protect" their precious AH.

katanaflame
06-27-2007, 02:19 PM
look this whole lfm and lfg thing is only going to lead to mail spam and tell spam. which is alowed in game thats how plat sellers get away with it.

they get banned because they are looking for rl money.
but for in game stuff to be traded its is ok even though it will be more annoying but its gona be the way to go and all some people can say is they brought it on them selfs.

now you can also post in you bio and use genral chat no rule against that eaither.

dose trading on the forums work not really there is to few people who use it.
how do I know I have been try to get a bloodstone for 2 weeks now and I have been offering a package worth 1 mil plat no takers.

but I send some tells in game I have all kinds of people trying to get one to trade me.

the over all point play by the rules. the second point the rules can bite you ie spam mail, spam tells. the last point none of this will stop till they put in an in game trade bored.

so I have given 3 differant ways to trade not using the fourms or lfm&lfg
for those who do like the ways I mentioned to do that you can take up the game rules with the deves.

but before you do remmber you have opptions to block tells and I dont know if you can mail and if genral chat saying trading here see bio bothers you thats a proplem I cant fix but you can turn off genral chat.

now with all that said I have a bloodstone to go loot.

Vinos
06-27-2007, 03:14 PM
If you anticipate that much stuff being put up, I assume you would expect Turbine to include a search/filter feature. And how would it be handled when folks are offline? Would the trade only post when you are on? And could people post WTB posts? And would you have to 'attach' the item you are posting about? Or could you keep the item in your inventory. And if you forget to take down the post, does it expire after a certain time? And what about all the issues I couldn't think of in 20 seconds of rambling?

Point being, it's not as straightforward an undertaking as you seem to think. I too think it would be a nice feature. But I'm not paranoid enough to assume they haven't added this solely to "protect" their precious AH.

Maybe. too bad we'll never know.

Falco_Easts
06-27-2007, 07:40 PM
You missed what I said, You are LFM. and you can post a trade ad that way.

No you can't. The GM's will tell you to remove the LFT comment from it.

Shecky
06-27-2007, 10:09 PM
No you can't. The GM's will tell you to remove the LFT comment from it.

Correction: You can do it. You just don't want to get caught. :D

Balthazar_No_Oni
06-28-2007, 06:46 AM
The reason for the GM's getting on to you about has nothing to do whatsoever with the fact it "annoys" people. Why it annoys them is beyond me as there is at most 1 or 2 up in a LFM screen with maybe 6-7 teams looking for more. I actually like to read trade messages. Usually so I can laugh at the guy who wants a +6 dex ring for his +6 INT googles. The reason is they have the AH and that is the method for eliminating plat from the economy. That is the reason LFM's for trade are not allowed and the reason they will NEVER have a trading window.

The at most 1-2 is PRECISELY BECAUSE its not allowed. If it was allowed there would be double didget numbers of trade requests and the same 6-7 real lfms. Dont kid yourself, LFT's would take over lfm if they were allowed.

Vinos
06-28-2007, 08:31 AM
The at most 1-2 is PRECISELY BECAUSE its not allowed. If it was allowed there would be double didget numbers of trade requests and the same 6-7 real lfms. Dont kid yourself, LFT's would take over lfm if they were allowed.

Read a few posts up. I acknowledged this.

Balthazar_No_Oni
06-28-2007, 08:36 AM
As pointed out earlier, the trade window would not replace the auction house for most stuff. Perhaps for some of the big high end items, but not the vast majority of the "that's cool, too bad I can't really use it" items that people put up.

I totally disaree with this, People will still post all of thier trash on a LFT window, just to avoid AH fees.

Talcyndl
06-28-2007, 09:08 AM
I totally disaree with this, People will still post all of thier trash on a LFT window, just to avoid AH fees.

Maybe some would. But if the LFT was limited to when you were on (and you had to actually meet up and manually do the trade/sale) I think most people would quickly grow tired of the hassle.

Mercules
06-28-2007, 10:42 AM
Maybe some would. But if the LFT was limited to when you were on (and you had to actually meet up and manually do the trade/sale) I think most people would quickly grow tired of the hassle.

Likely... or they might invest in another account. One character in quests and the other on another screen with the trades up. Soon we would have Traydmuul as names. ;)

Mizyrlou
06-28-2007, 11:10 AM
In response to the concept that posted LTT messages in LFM are not an annoyance... bull-flop. I find it very very irritating. ESPECIALLY when the level range is set to 1-14. Then it shows up in my LFM window as a group I can join.

That would be my main annoyance, that the level range they set makes it impossible for me to filter them out by level when I'm looking for a group. For the most part though, as long as there's more LFM's than WTTs up in the screen, I'm not going to gripe, but if they're swamping the list making it hard to scroll around for a group, then I will begin reporting.

Balthazar_No_Oni
06-28-2007, 11:51 AM
That would be my main annoyance, that the level range they set makes it impossible for me to filter them out by level when I'm looking for a group. For the most part though, as long as there's more LFM's than WTTs up in the screen, I'm not going to gripe, but if they're swamping the list making it hard to scroll around for a group, then I will begin reporting.

The reason why they arnt swamping the LFM window is because others ARE reporting them. If people who care about it report, and I mean ALL people who care about it, then it will never get to that point.

vyvy3369
06-29-2007, 05:53 AM
Since it's a duplication of the other thread, and several of the same (incorrect) arguments are coming up, here's what I had posted there:

In response to someone's comments that you can trade in LFG/Who Comments:

FYI, it would appear (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=95125) (post #7 in particular (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1032819&postcount=7)) that they are not allowed in the social panel, period.

In response to thoughts of a trade channel or using the existing general channels for trading:

Just so you're aware though, the Code of Conduct prohibits spamming (#6), which is what you pretty much have to do to be effective at using that method. IIRC, people were disciplined for doing that in taverns and other public channels early on in the game, but I haven't seen it too often of late.

It's amazing how often I still have to report people for doing this. Don't use the social panel for trading, please.

Edit: Oh, and in regards to whether or not the GMs actively look for this. As far as I can tell, they do on occasion. Back when we'd have multiple trade-LFMs at the same time, I'd only report one and they'd all go away right around the same time. Maybe it takes someone to point out that this is going on, but once they're on to it they act on all of them.

Mad_Bombardier
06-29-2007, 09:47 AM
In response to someone's comments that you can trade in Who Comments:Yeah, that was me. Kosmo's official announcement says LFG/LFM (which is now entitled 'Grouping'). Even Sparker's note says Social then specifies LFM. And I have not personally heard or seen any complaints from people banned or warned for posting info in the 'Who' comments. Maybe this method is not being used, or maybe they are not being reported.

If there was a general in-game ban on advertising trades, they would have and should have stated that in the official announcement. They didn't; they specified LFG/LFM. 'Who' comments are innocuous and non-invasive. They require the poster to uncheck anonymous to be read and require other players to scan through the Who list to find you. Additionally, they reset with logout requiring the poster to update as information changes.

Mercules
06-29-2007, 10:05 AM
Yeah, that was me. Kosmo's official announcement says LFG/LFM (which is now entitled 'Grouping'). Even Sparker's note says Social then specifies LFM. And I have not personally heard or seen any complaints from people banned or warned for posting info in the 'Who' comments. Maybe this method is not being used, or maybe they are not being reported.

If there was a general in-game ban on advertising trades, they would have and should have stated that in the official announcement. They didn't; they specified LFG/LFM. 'Who' comments are innocuous and non-invasive. They require the poster to uncheck anonymous to be read and require other players to scan through the Who list to find you. Additionally, they reset with logout requiring the poster to update as information changes.

I report LFMs because it is basically spam and it annoys me when I am trying to find a group. I do not report LFGs with trade info because it doesn't bother me or interfere with me trying to find a group. I skim through the list if I am actively looking for players and while I would like something helpful in the LFG, most people put nothing in there, so the trade isn't causing any other info to be lost.

I use the LFG to announce what I might be looking for or specifics. For example: "Hvy Rep based Fighter", "WF Rogue, Self Healing.", "I can help heal WF"(on my other Rogue), and "I'm a Bard not a Cleric, bring your own wands."

Rog
07-01-2007, 06:21 AM
i have not seen this in a while with ah but we use to group ts where u put comment enstead of elite (trade party or uber trade party ,party forming in bank) then make all trades over voice chat can be funny when u get a newb low level asking for that +2 item he cant find which usely get him a free item and the rest a good laugh not sure if that spamming a trade or not becouse we might really be running the spine for fun.