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Dworkin_of_Amber
05-23-2007, 12:53 PM
In a tribute to Impaqt's "Essential Equipment..." thread, I think that an Essential Weapons thread for the melee (and even ranged) masses might be in order. I have played since Beta, and like many others, have carried 30+ weapons around for my guys at times... but over time, I have reduced it down to a much more managable list.

I will list the "basics" here, and if you can find a weapon that combines more than one together, then great! Additionally, I will use the basic versions (flaming, frost, holy, etc) for the weapons, but the Bursts are, of course better!

Assuming a "Slashing" or "Piercing" spec

Weapons you need at a minimum:
+5 - For Maximum Damage
Flaming - Trolls, Mummys, and most other fleshies in the game
Frost - Fire Elementals/Mephics, and most other fleshies in the game
Holy Blunt (Hammer, Club, Mace, etc) - Bony Undead, like Skeletons
Ghost Touch - Wraiths, Phasing guys
Adamantine - Constructs like Golems

Weapons that are very nice to have:
Adamantine Blunt - Clay Golems
Anarchic/True Chaos - Marut (TS, VON3, Maid to Order)
Holy - All non-bony Undead, like Wights, Zombies
Wounding/Puncturing - Con Damage
Weakening/Enfeebling - Str Damage
Maladroit/Bone Breaking Blunt - Dex Damage
Cursespewing - Reduce Damage/Saves on Target
"...of Pure Good" versions of any of the above-listed weapons (Good-Aligned Only)
Sirocco - +1 Longsword, Telekinetic, Sirocco (chance to blind on hit, DC17 knockdown on Crit) (Can replace with Whirlwind for 2-handed fighters)
Holy Cold Iron - Invaders & Marilith
Retribution (Lawful Good Only) - +1 Holy, True Law, Pure Good - vs. almost anything in the game

"Gravy" Weapons:
Vorpal - vs anything that takes > 20 hits to kill, on average
Paralyzer - vs Anything
Disruptor - vs Undead
Banisher - vs Outsiders
Smiter - vs Constructs
Sword of Shadows



Now, this is my personal list, but I really think that you can manage to have the "right" weapon for most occasions with less than 20 weapons (or even less than 10). Flaming, Adamantine, Holy, Frost, and Ghost Touch are the KEY weapons.

Weapons that are really useless:
Acid - Yes, I can't think of a single mob that is resistant vs. Acid, but what do you *NEED* Acid for??? Trolls? Fire works just as well, and is awsome vs. Ice-based stuff (Flensers, Mephits, etc)
Anarchic/True Chaos - Except the Marut and for PvP, Anarchic and True Chaos are highly situational weapons, and not really worth it. I carry a nice Anarchic Burst weapon for the Marut because we run teh Dragon a *LOT*... but it's not that big a deal.


Of the "Gravy Weapons"... which ones do I *REALLY* need?:
Ok, while everyone wants a Vorpal, let's be realisting, you have a 5% chance to roll a 20, that you then have to confirm to get the Vorpal, so on average you have a 2.5-5% chance to Vorpal... nice, but not realistic. And the Sword of Shadows... everyone wants one, but after 50+ Dragon Runs, I still don't have one... I would say that out of all of the "Gravy" weapons that up until Level 14+ stuff that a Paralyzer is the "Most useful", followed closely by a Disruption. However, around Level 14 quests, the Paralyzer drops off in usefulness, as more and more mobs save against it, leaving the Disruptor as the most useful, given the large number of Undead in the Game. I'll rate them below

Up to L13/14 quests:
1) Paralyzer
2) Disruptor
3) Smiter
4) Banisher
5) Vorpal

Above L13/14 quests (ie GH on Elite):
1) Disruptor
2) Smiter
3) Banisher
4) Paralyzer
5) Vorpal

I know that some may disagree with me, but that's their opinion.

I know this has rambled a bit, but hopefully after some comments and discussion, someone who is a bit more "eloquent" than I can restate all of this more cleanly and consisely

Bloodmech
05-23-2007, 02:43 PM
Im going to call you on chaos/anarchaic weapons...early on in the game they wernt that good everything was chaotic evil...but sence they have aded many lawful evil foes

examples are: Constructs,Stormreaver, goblens, kobolds, Rakashaka, Arium, Cultists, most undead...practicly anything that shows feltis to some sort of loyalty to a master

The_Cataclysm
05-23-2007, 03:19 PM
Im going to call you on chaos/anarchaic weapons...early on in the game they wernt that good everything was chaotic evil...but sence they have aded many lawful evil foes

examples are: Constructs,Stormreaver, goblens, kobolds, Rakashaka, Arium, Cultists, most undead...practicly anything that shows feltis to some sort of loyalty to a master

With the exception of the Maruts, constructs aren't lawful. They are true neutral.

Blazer
05-23-2007, 04:22 PM
Weapons that are really useless:
Acid - Yes, I can't think of a single mob that is resistant vs. Acid, but what do you *NEED* Acid for??? Trolls? Fire works just as well, and is awsome vs. Ice-based stuff (Flensers, Mephits, etc)


Nice list. My only point of contention, and it is a minor one at that, is regarding acid weapons. I think carrying acid around is far better - well, maybe not better, but simpler...and lazier. :) But then again, I think acid weapons are underrated and prefer using them on all my melee.

You state fire works just as well on trolls, and you are right. And fire is awesome vs. ice-based stuff. But then you come across fire based stuff (or stuff that casts fire prot - mummies - or is fire resistant - gnolls) and you want a frost weapon, or a holy weapon. Then you come across the frost stuff again and you want to reach for your flaming again to see those purple numbers.

If I just stick to my acid weapon, I pretty much *never* have to switch it out for anything, unless I have something that works *far far far* better against the mob (read: greater bane or something to that effect). Sure, I don't see purple numbers, but I also don't have to carry around that many different weapons. Now keep in mind, I have a +5 acid longsword of pure good (a pretty nice weapon) so I'm constantly seeing 3 numbers pop up on every mob, without needing to switch to another weapon.

Just my thoughts on why everyone should use acid. ;)

Bloodmech
05-23-2007, 07:36 PM
With the exception of the Maruts, constructs aren't lawful. They are true neutral.

Ty telling that to all the WF in Von 4+Von ...and WF in PoP

Vox
05-24-2007, 12:02 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the vorpal issue... Only when you are running elite end game quests. As weapon qualities rise the necessity for a vorpal in a given quest drops. However, for my money I get more kills in Madstone on elite than when DPSing.

Personally I would rate vorpals minimum of 4th, and likely 2nd for true endgame content. Now this is not true as you move forward for the same quests it was true.

Take for example Invaders. When it first came out, a vorpal weilding fighter could outkill and better assist the party on the renders etc. than a DPSer. Now though, weilding an axio burst pure good cold iron weapon at L14 I am far better off than with a vorpal.

So, for most every quest in the game, on almost every difficulty you are correct. On Elite doing the highest end quests, I think you are seriously undervaluing vorpals.

Vox

Dworkin_of_Amber
05-24-2007, 11:44 AM
I knew some people would take exception with my valuation of Vorpals... but that's to be expected, and to each his own.

As for the Anarchic/True Chaos - Yes, you are probably right that it is more useful now than before... but 98% of what the Anarchic Works on, so does Holy.... so that's why I rate Holy more important than Anarchic/True Chaos... but again, to each his own.

A lot of what I was looking at is not necessarily the "usefulness", but the importance of having one weapon to use effectively vs DR or other immunities for 90-95% of the game content. That is why I list Anarchic/True Chaos very low, as you really only NEED it vs. the Marut/Inevitable. Where as, Holy you need all the time.

And I can agree that Acid can easily replace the Flaming and the Frost, but I find that having both Flaming & Frost is more useful for thje double-elemental damage vs. those monsters that it works against. Take running PoP... I'd much rather switch from Flaming in the Risia room to Frost in the Fernia room than do both with an Acid.

And the number of mobs that you can get the double-damage on is quite a lot in some quests. Ice Flensers/Mephits for Flaming, and Fire Giants/Fire Reavers/Mephits/etc for Ice... plus if you've played in Ataraxia's Haven, you know you have to have either Fire or Acid to actually kill the trolls (even Vorpal doesn't work!)

Blazer
05-24-2007, 02:33 PM
Yep, if you don't mind carrying around all those different weapon types, having one for each enemy type is great. I'm lazy and like to keep my backpack as minimal as possible. :)

Impaqt
05-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Due to the High DR of Maruts, any DPS character is doing his party a diservice if they dont have a Anarctic/True Chaos weapon. Its near immpossible to take them down with traditional tactics and weapons.

Even my Lawful Good Paly/Cleric carries an anarctic Burst Battleaxe for Maruts....

Symar-FangofLloth
05-24-2007, 02:47 PM
Due to the High DR of Maruts, any DPS character is doing his party a diservice if they dont have a Anarctic/True Chaos weapon. Its near immpossible to take them down with traditional tactics and weapons.

Even my Lawful Good Paly/Cleric carries an anarctic Burst Battleaxe for Maruts....

Personally, I found a greater construct bane scimitar, and use that instead. The bane damage isn't affected by the DR. I also have a mace of smiting for smitable constructs, though.

Impaqt
05-24-2007, 02:49 PM
Personally, I found a greater construct bane scimitar, and use that instead. The bane damage isn't affected by the DR. I also have a mace of smiting for smitable constructs, though.

Anarctic has nothing to do with most constructs... Smites are Fine...

Greater Construct bane can be fine as well.... But Anarctic Burst tears Maruts apart....

Bloodmech
05-24-2007, 03:00 PM
HOw can you say that Anarchaic has nothing to do with coanstructs...sence all nonplayer WF are lawfull, and WF are Construct...I know this because I take a anarchaic burst Heavy pick in von 4-5 and PoP (vs WF, not Merut)and clean up...BTW ARCHES Knight at the end of VON5 is Lawful

Impaqt
05-24-2007, 03:20 PM
HOw can you say that Anarchaic has nothing to do with coanstructs...sence all nonplayer WF are lawfull, and WF are Construct...I know this because I take a anarchaic burst Heavy pick in von 4-5 and PoP (vs WF, not Merut)and clean up...BTW ARCHES Knight at the end of VON5 is Lawful



Yes Yes Yes, WF Are Constructs..... I'm Talking about Maruts in particular right now.. Use whatever ya want on WF'd I dont care.....

Dworkin_of_Amber
05-24-2007, 04:00 PM
Even my Paladin carries an Anarchic Weapon because it rips the Marut apart.

The point of the thread, was to outline what the "essential" weapons really are... not considering Bane Weapons (which can double or triple the number of weapons you carry), but an outline of what are the really needed weapons for any melee-type character (regardless of alignment or class)

Remember, this is the Player's Guide section, so it is geared towards those with less knowledge, or less playing time, or platinum than others, and can't just go buy or farm whatever they want. The idea is "what is the most important set of weapons I want to buy/collect to have the 'right' weapon 95% of the time"... Yes, Greater Bane and such is the shiz-nit, and same with Bursting of Pure Good and such... but I wanted a realistic list that anyone could easily collect through playing the game, without buying off the AH or Vendors (or low-price stuff only).

Any other comments? And/or anyone want to make this all into something a little more "useable" a format?

Mad_Bombardier
05-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Nice list Dworkin! I'll add a few of my favorite combos: 'of Pure Good' if you are good aligned and 'of Righteousness' if you are Neutral or Good aligned.

Ghost Touch <weapon> of Pure Good (or of Righteousness): extra damage for wraiths and specters (you can't crit them, but you can good them).
Holy (or Holy Burst) <weapon> of Pure Good (or of Righteousness): for skellies or any evil mob in the game.

Adding Righteousness basically upgrades your Holy weapon to 'of Evil Bane.' And with most mobs in the game being evil, that's a lot of uses! :D

QuantumFX
05-24-2007, 05:28 PM
Dworkin,
You forgot Shock weapons on your list. And with the increased use of protection spells/PotP area dampeners you should reevaluate your take on acid weapons. It's more efficent to hit mummies in the desert with an Iron Cleaver over a Flaming Burst Battleaxe.

Tanka
05-25-2007, 08:18 AM
If you plan on adventuring in Ataraxia's Haven at all, make sure to carry Flaming/Acidic weapons with you.

Dworkin_of_Amber
05-25-2007, 08:30 AM
Mad_Bombadier: Absolutely, if you are "Good" aligned, then upgrading your elemental and ghost touch to "..of pure good" will definately upgrade your DPS... I actually ran some numbers through the DPS calculators, and a +1 Frost of Pure Good weapon will beat a +2 Icy Burst of the same weapon type for almost all AC's!!!

For anyone who is Good Aligned - Absolutely Postively get as many of your weapons "of pure good" as you can... even going for non-burst of pure good over a burst (With the only exception possibly being Picks with their x4 crit multiplier).

One thing to remember, Righteousness is +2 Hit & +2 Damage against Evil things... that is not quite as good as Evil Bane (oh if that only existed!!!), as that would be +2 Hit +2d6 Damage.... but if you are choosing between a +1 of Righteousness and a +2 Normal.... I would go for the +1 of Righteousness


Quantum: You may be right.... I dropped my Shock and Acid a LOOOONG time ago. I know shock has the added property of slowing some constructs down, but being a Kopesh user, a Dynastic Falcata rips them apart... and even my new +5 Flaming Adamantine Kopesh of Righgteousness rips them apart (I know the Flaming Heals them, but a +7 Adamantine Kopesh (in most situations) is well worth healing them 1d6! :)

I will have to pull out an old Acid or Shock for my next run through the Desert...

EspyLacopa
05-25-2007, 11:46 AM
Ty telling that to all the WF in Von 4+Von ...and WF in PoP

Yea, I think he meant all *Golems* are true neutral.

apollojuly
05-25-2007, 02:01 PM
A big ole wood club is a must against oozes and slimes.
A weapon starting with the word Muck is peaches and gravy.

Vinos
05-25-2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah don't forget about muckbane. Also your take on vorpals doesn't seem right. Vorpals are at LEAST #2 on the list and more likely number 1 because there are more non undead then undead. At the highest levels a disruption is an undead vorpal. They are only gonna fail thier save on a 1 so you have the same 5% chance. Vorpal also has the advantage of the vorpal effect has no save. You say not to use vorpals unless it will take more than 20 hits to kill something and i agree but the same has to go for disruptors as well. My list goes like this

1: Vorpal(insta-kill with no save vs most mobs)
2: Disruptors(insta-kill with a save vs undead)
3: Paralyzers(useful against almost all mobs)
4: Smiters(great but constructs aren't common)
5: Banisher(meh. not really super useful and the HD limit on it will make it more useless as we go up in level)

Tanka
05-25-2007, 03:30 PM
On Elite content with high HP creatures, Vorpal > *

On any quest with low HP creatures, straight up damage tends to work much faster.

It's never "in 20 swings you'll vorpal a creature". I've vorpaled 6 creatures in a row, without a swing between each. It's all in the roll.

Casta
05-25-2007, 08:28 PM
Weapons that are really useless:
Acid - Yes, I can't think of a single mob that is resistant vs. Acid, but what do you *NEED* Acid for??? Trolls? Fire works just as well, and is awsome vs. Ice-based stuff (Flensers, Mephits, etc)


Pk dogs resist acid, not sure what else but I thought of 1 as soon as i saw that im sure theres more. And its nice to have if you dont have all the other elemental weponds.

VonBek
05-25-2007, 09:33 PM
Nice list. My only point of contention, and it is a minor one at that, is regarding acid weapons. I think carrying acid around is far better - well, maybe not better, but simpler...and lazier. :) ...

If I just stick to my acid weapon, I pretty much *never* have to switch it out for anything, ...

Just my thoughts on why everyone should use acid. ;)

Laughed at the last line.

I have a soft spot for The Slacker Build: (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=96776). An acid or shock weapon might be better for the mindset behind that build. OTOH, I am getting quite a collection of BstSwords for my WF Ftr/Paly, and this list will help my caddy's job security.

Many Thanks Dworkin.

Sacrement
05-25-2007, 10:24 PM
reavers and flenzors, spiders in trial by fire, arcane oozes these and many more are immune to acid

edit: don't get me wrong acid is my fav weapon I have one on all my fighting toons it is very usefull and has the second least amount of mobs immune to its effects shock having the least

VonBek
05-26-2007, 07:03 AM
...has the second least amount of mobs immune to its effects shock having the least

I just found out what shock does to slimes :( Was that inspired by Gallagher?

Rokurgepta
05-26-2007, 11:07 AM
Have to disagree on the end game gravy weapons usefulness.

Paralyzers are in my opinion still the most usefull. You can still paralyze most mobs you face.

Vorpals still kill on a 20 and a confirm and my fighter rarely misses a confirm.

Disruptors are nice there are a good number of undead around in gianthold.

Banishers have about reached the end of their usefulness here.

Smiters just not enough constructs right now at the higher end stuff to make this more usefull than any of the others.

Vinos
05-26-2007, 11:31 AM
Have to disagree on the end game gravy weapons usefulness.

Paralyzers are in my opinion still the most usefull. You can still paralyze most mobs you face.

Vorpals still kill on a 20 and a confirm and my fighter rarely misses a confirm.

Disruptors are nice there are a good number of undead around in gianthold.

Banishers have about reached the end of their usefulness here.

Smiters just not enough constructs right now at the higher end stuff to make this more usefull than any of the others.

agreed but for some reason everyone on my server is hoarding smiters like mad. Can't trade a para longbow for a decent smiter.

Rokurgepta
05-26-2007, 11:41 AM
agreed but for some reason everyone on my server is hoarding smiters like mad. Can't trade a para longbow for a decent smiter.

Are you on tharask? I would make that trade.

Vinos
05-26-2007, 11:43 AM
Are you on tharask? I would make that trade.


nope Fernia.

Shade
05-27-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the vorpal issue... Only when you are running elite end game quests. As weapon qualities rise the necessity for a vorpal in a given quest drops. However, for my money I get more kills in Madstone on elite than when DPSing.

Personally I would rate vorpals minimum of 4th, and likely 2nd for true endgame content. Now this is not true as you move forward for the same quests it was true.

Take for example Invaders. When it first came out, a vorpal weilding fighter could outkill and better assist the party on the renders etc. than a DPSer. Now though, weilding an axio burst pure good cold iron weapon at L14 I am far better off than with a vorpal.

So, for most every quest in the game, on almost every difficulty you are correct. On Elite doing the highest end quests, I think you are seriously undervaluing vorpals.

Vox

Well there value is really dependant on your playstyle. Personally I rather not do lvl14 elite quests like madstone without a high DPS build around, but thats just me. My dps build usually gets 2-3 times more kills then anyone wielding a vorpal in madstone elite. Which for the number of mobs in that quest i feel is like a minimum speed you want to kill thru it. Ideally 2 high dps chars are around so it can be completed in a good time, like around 30-40 min, vs 60+ mins for groups trying to vorpal the mobs.

I mean sure the monsters have 800-1000 hp there, but thats really not allot for proper DPS builds these days, I can take them down in litteraly 2 seconds.

Aranticus
05-27-2007, 08:07 PM
not trying to troll, but seriously from the OP's posts he is not interested in a discussion but more of trying to justify why everyone should follow him and use his list. but should we?


I know that some may disagree with me, but that's their opinion.

banishers at end game will never be as good as a vorpal. mobs will have more than 25HD by the time we reach L20 and they will be IMMUNE to the banisher. the vorpal is perhaps the most general weapon in endgame. most tanks by this time will have such high attack rolls that they reach high 30s and 40s. my ftr is able to self buff himself to +45 on the 1st roll. if i can hit on a 2, so how will i not be able to confirm if i roll a 20 (confirm is a check, 1 is not auto fail for checks). with stuff like seeker (eg bloodstone) or enhancements, my confirmation checks are closer to 55 and key is i'm not specced for vorpal. a vorpal specced ftr will b having a seeker 10 off hand, (or with bloodstone if only 1H) and maxed confirmation enhancements, with confirmation of +70 or higher

in potp, i never use elemental weapons in the elemental rooms. mobs these day have protection on and the elemental damage of frost or fire is absorbed (at least for the 1st few hits). instead i prefer a wounder. in fact it has been so bad these days (with mobs with high hp) that i prefer to use my wounder than an elemental weapon

i agree that anarchic/true chaos are often limited in use but they are not entirely useless. when the marut comes, god save the group w/o a chaotic weapon, a weak caster or no smiter. i disagree with "you need holy everytime". stop making sweeping statements. tons of mobs, even in endgame are not evil. holy only affect evil mobs, neutral or good mobs are not harmed by it, ie djinni = chaotic/neutral good, animals/vermin = neutral. turbine are also adding more non-evil humanoid mobs too.

many of the weapons depends on the situation and they type of play. if i use a vorp, why would i need a holy cold iron for outsiders and marilith? if u single wield and is using a khopesh for dps, why would i use a cursespewer? many weapons are also of a different type, ie maladroit/bone breaking is blunt only, why would a slash specc-ed tank carry it?

its also funny to see how "deep" the OP thought when he comes out with this list and his "wealth" of knowledge


Sirocco - +1 Longsword, Telekinetic, Sirocco (chance to blind on hit, DC17 knockdown on Crit) (Can replace with Whirlwind for 2-handed fighters)

sirocco is not +1, its +3. in addition, the blinding effect is not a chance but it hits everytime you crit. more importantly whirlwind can never replace sirocco. sirocco is valued not for its knockdown effect. a typical fighter with 30 str will have a trip DC of 20, 24 with improved trip (enhancements and weapon not included). why would i want to use these weapons to trip? sirocco is valued coz of its blinding effect. a blind mob has a 50% miss. similarly whirlwind is not value for its telekinetic effect but for its screaming which deals 1d6 sonic damage. and most mobs do not have sonic resistance.

i think not.... listening to the wrong people can sometimes land you in trouble. its better if you experience it yourself, learning from your mistakes is the best way to go... if all else fail, press z to examine the mob :D

PS: greater banes will always be highly valued as turbine comes up with more immunities. red name bosses are now already immune to trip, stun. blessing of ancients in gianthold tor makes the giants immune to epics.

Dworkin_of_Amber
05-28-2007, 10:47 AM
Aranticus - I am very interested in discussion on this topic, and that's why I asked for comments and ideas. Yes, we all have our own ideas on things, but I was trying to help create a "baseline guide" for newer players or less experiences players.

Yes, it is very true that later on in the game Elemental weapons become less and less useful, and stat-damagers like Wounding/Cursespewing/etc become a *LOT* more useful. But I was trying to cover *ALL* levels. Around Levels 4-8, I would much rather have a +1 Frost weapon than a straight +2 or +3 weapon... but I see some people carry one of each elemental, when I really don't think that is necessary. Same with the Stat-damagers... Wounding/Puncturing is the most useful... and I rarely ever use my Weakening... but it occasionally has it's uses.

I know we all value things differently. Personally, while a Vorpal weapon is fun and amusing, I don't rate it as high as other weapons... but as the levels and HD and Will Saves go up, then it will probably be more and more important a weapon in my arsenal.

I was trying to cover the 90% range of what you need, without getting crazy about things. I used to run around with almost 2 bags full of weapons... now I have it down to less than 1 bag, and I was trying to help share that information.


And yes, shame on me for forgetting Muckbane and a Throwing Returning Weapon.

Aranticus
05-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Aranticus - I am very interested in discussion on this topic, and that's why I asked for comments and ideas. Yes, we all have our own ideas on things, but I was trying to help create a "baseline guide" for newer players or less experiences players.

np, then heres my suggestion. 1st split up the lvl groupings for at different levels, different weapons may be used.

Level 1-2 (note: i'm not considering rr for weapon lvl calculation)
just a simple elemental or pure good weapon will do. mobs have relatively low hp, and low ac. most importantly, you'll only be L2 for a whole of 15 minutes, so theres no need to invest in a good weapon. versatility wise, pure good>acid>fire>shock>frost. (when i refer to versatility, i refer to how good would it be if just only one weapon is used) most mobs are evil, not resistant to acid. some are undead which is immune to frost but vulnerable to fire. get muck bane if possible (durk's)

Level 3-5
with a higher lvl, you can afford to get some nicer gear. instead of just elemental or pure good weapons (ML2) you can now use elemental of pure good, elemental burst, anarchic/axiomatic/holy (ML4). most mobs still have evil alignments, you meet yet more undead so the versatility changes to holy>acid>good>fire>shock>frost. constructs, vermin, animals are greater in number and they are immune to good. most still do not have acid resistance, undead are plently (stk and in catacombs). note that most quests are theme based ie catacombs are all undead, hence you can swap out acid for fire to be more effective. wraiths and constructs mean u need to use ghost touch and adamantine weapons

Level 6-9
basically at L6, things get exciting coz of the appearance of stat damagers. mobs also now have disporportionately large amounts of hp. by now, most show know what does what to mobs and its really a moot point here. versatility wise its still the same but keep a wounding weapon. the appearance of elementals and healers mean that the fastest way to drop them is to sap their con. nothing please me as much to see a mob drop dead with 1/2 hp bar remaining. clay golems are now frequent, adamantine blunts are a must. get muck doom if possible (the pit). get a anarchic weapon for use on maruts. while u seldom encounter them, when you do, they are likely to cause a party wipe fast.

L10 and up
a whole new dimension is opened with the introduction of epics (vorpal, paralysing, disruption, banishing, smiting). of the 5, paralyser is the most versatile for non-undead (thou some are immune to it). mobs make a DC17 will save. so far, its effective for non-casters up to L16 quests. disruption has a DC14 will (or is it fort) save for undead or be destroyed. effective up to ML16 with exception of the mummies, wight priests, barbarian undead which has extremely good will saves (but they can still fail the save). combined with ghost touch, its awesome. vorpal is extremely good for any non-undead with a head. roll a 20, confirm crit, target dies immediately. smiting and banishers are extremely useful against constructs and extraplanar beings but they need a crit to work.

at low levels (near L10) paralyser/disruption>vorpal>banisher/smiter. at higher levels, as the HD of the mobs increases and that their saves increase, it could turn out into a case of vorpal/disruption>paralyser>smiter>banisher

what weapon to use also depends on the party. if my party member are already using vorpal, i'd just use my paralyser to help stop the mobs so that can take their time to roll a 20. if someone is already using a paralyser, i might use the vorpal. its just a case of adaptability. i myself now carry about 20 weapons, 3 elemental burst (fire, frost, shock), 2 alignment burst (holy, anarchic), a wounder (adamantine), 2 muck doom, a returning, 5 epics and greater banes. i've been trying to cut down on the gear by trying to put them all into as little weapons as possible, but everytime turbine will introduce new effects/DR to make the collection harder (last was good and cold iron for outsiders)

Deragoth
05-30-2007, 08:45 AM
...instead i prefer a wounder. in fact it has been so bad these days (with mobs with high hp) that i prefer to use my wounder than an elemental weapon...

+++ on wounders.

I use my +2 Wounding Kopesh of Rightiousness more than any other weapon, hands down. Sometimes I'll load up my +3 Keen dagger of puncturing in my off hand if I can get away with not using a shield. Mobs die fast when this happens.

Asirin
05-30-2007, 09:05 AM
It is my mainstay weapon against all mephits...expecially useful in Threnel.