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jggbear
04-24-2007, 06:21 PM
Hi everyone

Doing today Crucible, my party and I got stuck with the door riddle. Some clues are very direct, others are confusing.

For those who have run this quest, there is:

-----DDDDD----- <- Door
I---------------I
D3-------------D4
I---------------I
D2-----Book----D5
I---------------I
D1-------------D6
I---------------I
I-----Party-----I

Even and Odd numbered door clues are easy, so are the ones that say wich one is death.

:confused: The problem are left, right, closer to the exit and closer to the entrance. Are this directions based on the party, or on the door?

Example: Are left doors 1, 2, 3 or 4, 5, 6 :confused: . Are closer to the exit 3 & 4 or 1 & 6. :confused:

Any help would be gratefull


Thanks

Elleron
04-24-2007, 07:13 PM
I've only run this once, but is this the trap doors? If it is we just sent my rouge up there and opened up the doors. This quest is cool, because it needs all types, the melee types that can swim, the evasion types for the trap room by the shrine and the closed doors area.

Lithic
04-24-2007, 08:20 PM
It would not make sense for the devs to base the clues off of the reverse of party movement through the dungeon. And also, if you think about how the monsters move around, they would need to guess right to get the horn to pass through the door (exit), so it makes sense to take the directions from where your party stands to avoid the traps.

That said, we did the clues properly one time through the crucible, and always narrowed the choice to 50/50. Ranger kept guessing wrong until I picked it for him (guess wizards have better instincts hehe). Every other time I have gone through that quest I just get the rogue to open the same door over and over again. Most times opened so far was 7, which is about the same amount of time as getting 3 individuals from a pug to understand what they have to do to get the instinc clue, report it, and get the evasion guy to open his first door.

Krazed
04-24-2007, 10:45 PM
What we do now is whatever door they tell us hides death, we open. So if it says 'Door 3 hides death.' we open door 3. Works about 75% of the time.

Strakeln
04-24-2007, 11:34 PM
I've only run this once, but is this the trap doors? If it is we just sent my rouge up there and opened up the doors. This quest is cool, because it needs all types, the melee types that can swim, the evasion types for the trap room by the shrine and the closed doors area.I'm sure Kargon would agree that you need no such things. One barbarian is all you need!

(a couple potions might help too)

Nah, seriously, ran it on elite tonight and just had my no-evasion barbarian do the trap room, the trap doors, and the swimming. Did the trap room with no damage, using speed boost. The swimming part isn't all that bad, just stay low and take it one rock at a time.

Strakeln
04-24-2007, 11:36 PM
Every other time I have gone through that quest I just get the rogue to open the same door over and over again.Do this. Much faster. It's a real pain when someone gets the clue then doesn't know how to retrieve it. Then gets the next clue. And the next one.

ShadowFox1978
04-25-2007, 01:39 AM
They are numbered. The numbers are on the floor in front of each door.

As you approach, the first door to your left is 1 and the first to your right is 6. Closest to the exit means the closed door ahead of you as you approach(these would be doors 3 and 4). Closest to the book means doors 2 and 5.

Now the important part. This is the test of instincts. High wisdom will get true clues low wisdom will get lies. Send the lowest wisdom in the group to the book. Have that person get all the clues. Now make your decision assuming the exact opposite of whatever he "sensed".

Example: I ran this tonight. My fighter (10 wisdom) got the following clues:

Odd numbers hold death.
Closest to the book hold death.
Door 5 holds death.

What that meant:
even numbers hold death
2 or 5 are correct
door 5 is safe

We opened door 5 and it was correct.

GlassCannon
04-25-2007, 03:23 AM
There are clues?

Oh well. Every time I run it I just pick one. It's usually right the first time(never been wrong more than once).

Clues... huh.

Our problem is the swim with the spikes... current is just too strong. The only one to actually successfuly do the swim with no problems(that I have run with) and take out the gnolls is my ranger Speedfoot. The other times we had to have the rogue pure grab stones and res the cleric and get the party back up and ready. I'd rather have one person do it all than the entire party have to do it.

Strangelove66
04-25-2007, 08:45 AM
Fox hit the nail on the head for the test of instincts. Just make sure you send someone with high wisdom to read the podium three times. Note that sometimes it will say "Left doors hide death" and also "Right doors hide death". In this case, just pick any door and read the podium again.

And yes, you can just pick a random door each time, but that is a 1/6th (17%) chance of being correct. You can greatly increase your chances by reading the clues with a high-wisdom character and get through the test faster and with less resources spent. Good luck.

Edit: Oh, and the clues are from the perspective of the approaching players.

Aspenor
04-25-2007, 09:14 AM
I dunno I never bothered to read the clues I just use evasion and stand in the traps, opening the same door over and over until it's the right one :D

tihocan
04-25-2007, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the tip above :) Now I understand why my low wis barbarian got it right when we entered the room "holding death".

Balkas
04-25-2007, 09:41 AM
Send the cleric to get the three clues and then listen to those clues :)

jggbear
04-25-2007, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the tips.

I was confused when all the party got the clues and always got the wrong door (tryied to do it right), now I know that wisdom is needed for this quest.

Thanks again

ananigma
04-25-2007, 12:07 PM
The key is the combination of clues you get, 3 of them regardless of who reads. 2 will be right and 1 is wrong.

Example:

Player 1: Odd number door hides Death
Player 2: Door number 4 hides death.
Player 3: Door number 3 hides death.

Now 3 is an odd number and 4 is an even number. Since 2 of the clues points to it being door 3. Door 3 is the one you want to open.

I do this every single time and every time it works.

Key is to make sure those who read it, dont look at it for a second and move away. If you do you wont get ur clue. This is what generally happens when you only end up with 2 clues. If so, its just a guessing game.

Ciaran
04-27-2007, 08:47 AM
Once you narrow it down to which two door you can open, get one person on one door and another person on another door. Have somebody countdown from 3 and open them at the same time. This is how we've done it in my guild.

Just make sure the people going either have evasion or good reflexes and a lot of pots!

Gratch
05-01-2007, 04:44 PM
I believe you can either have a high wisdom reader read the 3 clues and try to avoid death -OR- have a low wisdom reader read it and go for death. My experience is the high wisdom method doesn't always narrow it down to one door... the low wisdom version usually does.... so we always go that route now and so far low wisdom is batting 100% first try. Plus... the sign at the front says something along the lines of: "A wise one will use their allies"... their low wisdom allies. :)

The best way to do the swim part is to send in batman. aka, an evader that can umd ck on the mobs. Nominally with a swim item. Then batman gets the horn and key and can turn off the current with the switch near the chest room for others who want to grab the chest while drinking pots for anything that hits them. Then everyone swims out the exit direction with the current.

Snike
07-10-2007, 06:16 PM
Have the rogue open the same door over and over and it's bound to spawn there. Usualy within the first 4-5 openings. Took me 12 tries once. Would be nice if the puzzle solving was more reliable, but I just found it faster to spam open one door than to try and figure out the puzzle that only ends up gives you a 50-50 chance.

sirgog
07-11-2007, 09:05 AM
My Wis 6 fighter gets a clue of "Door X holds death". I open door X and retrieve the horn every time.

Raithe
07-13-2007, 04:40 AM
The key is the combination of clues you get, 3 of them regardless of who reads. 2 will be right and 1 is wrong.

Example:

Player 1: Odd number door hides Death
Player 2: Door number 4 hides death.
Player 3: Door number 3 hides death.

Now 3 is an odd number and 4 is an even number. Since 2 of the clues points to it being door 3. Door 3 is the one you want to open.

I do this every single time and every time it works.

Key is to make sure those who read it, dont look at it for a second and move away. If you do you wont get ur clue. This is what generally happens when you only end up with 2 clues. If so, its just a guessing game.

I believe this to be the correct solution.

It doesn't really make any sense for Turbine to add a wisdom check to the book reading and intuitions, because since you have no way of knowing if you beat the wisdom check, everything is just as much in limbo as if you didn't make the check at all. I don't think wisdom matters.

Furthermore, there is a poem to the book. The poem, to me, suggests that you should be looking for death to complete the test. You are not, IMO, looking for the door that doesn't "hide death."

I think Ananigma has it exactly right, and if I were still playing the game I would use this method.

BTW, the name Ananigma is ironic in this particular situation...

tihocan
07-13-2007, 09:20 AM
It is not true that 2 will be right and 1 wrong.
Every time I did it with my cleric (I did it 3-4 times), they seemed all right. Usually however I end up with a choice between 2 doors, so if I pick a door and it fails, I can't know if the other door was the correct one. However I always found the correct door quickly.

With my barbarian (8 base wis), most of the time the clues seem to be lying. However I think I did it 3 times too, and only once the clues were all consistent. The other times there was at least one clue conflicting with another.

So I do believe wisdom plays a role.

Raithe
07-13-2007, 11:48 AM
It is not true that 2 will be right and 1 wrong.
Every time I did it with my cleric (I did it 3-4 times), they seemed all right. Usually however I end up with a choice between 2 doors, so if I pick a door and it fails, I can't know if the other door was the correct one. However I always found the correct door quickly.

With my barbarian (8 base wis), most of the time the clues seem to be lying. However I think I did it 3 times too, and only once the clues were all consistent. The other times there was at least one clue conflicting with another.

So I do believe wisdom plays a role.

I have had a cleric who claimed to have a 30 wisdom get the following 2 intuitions (don't remember what the third was):

1) The odd numbered doors hide death.
2) The even numbered doors hide death.

Regardless of which way you are filtering (trying to find the door that hides death, or trying to find the door that doesn't hide death) both of these intuitions cannot be the truth. Which means one of 2 things:

1) You can fail the wisdom check with a 30 wisdom
2) Wisdom doesn't matter

For various reasons I'm almost positive it is (2), one of those reasons being what I described in my previous post.

You will also note that Ananigma is claiming 100% success rate. I have run with others who claimed to know exactly what they were doing and they did in fact succeed on the first try. They did not seem to be concerned about using the person with the most or least amount of wisdom at all.

I'll reiterate my statement that I think that Ananigma does indeed have the solution exactly right.

tihocan
07-13-2007, 01:15 PM
EDIT: After thinking about it some more the only exception I would make is it might be possible to receive 3 correct intuitions. Two of the intuitions are selected based on the actual location of the horn. The third may be merely random, and thus could, coincedentally, be truthful as well.
All I can say is it already happened to me that all 3 hints were correct on my cleric (i.e. the door with the horn was not one designated as "hiding death"). And it happened that all 3 were wrong with my barbarian (i.e. there was a door "hiding death" that was pointed out by all 3 hints, and that contained the horn).

Raithe
07-13-2007, 01:50 PM
All I can say is it already happened to me that all 3 hints were correct on my cleric (i.e. the door with the horn was not one designated as "hiding death"). And it happened that all 3 were wrong with my barbarian (i.e. there was a door "hiding death" that was pointed out by all 3 hints, and that contained the horn).

K, I'll give up trying not to confuse everyone - I was trying to help the OP wade through all the misinformation. I still believe that Ananigma has the correct solution, or at the very least is pretty close.

I would point out, however, that not everyone who replied in this forum can be correct. Many replies contradict, and I know some of the replies are false from personal experience.

Caliban
08-26-2007, 10:59 AM
My 10 wis 32 Int wizard get's it right almost every time with 2 clues correct and one clue wrong.

My 29 wisdom cleric seems to get it wrong more often than not.

So I'm thinking that high Int helps, and a low wis helps. A high wis doesn't seem to help so much.


(And my 8 str wizard can do the swim - if you know exactly where to swim you can avoid hitting the spikes and never make a reflex save.)

McSurlykins
08-26-2007, 06:51 PM
as said before ,just let the 8 wisdom barb do it ..it will always give one lie....saying door x hides death..open that door and u have it

tihocan
08-27-2007, 09:05 AM
My 29 wisdom cleric seems to get it wrong more often than not.

(...) A high wis doesn't seem to help so much.
Can you elaborate on this? Every time I did it on my cleric (note: it's not been a lot, maybe 4-5 times), the clues reduced my choice to two doors. So it seemed like I had a 50% chance of getting it right (and on this small sample, it seemed to match). So what's exactly your basis to say high wis does not help?

Palmetto
08-27-2007, 09:47 AM
as said before ,just let the 8 wisdom barb do it ..it will always give one lie....saying door x hides death..open that door and u have it
The above statement is the key to choosing the correct door.

elkin
08-27-2007, 11:59 AM
I don't even bother reading the Wisdom book. Just have a ranger or a rogue open the same door over and over. If ranger or rogue fails to open the correct door, they can save from the trap damage with the evasion feat.

Gulva
08-27-2007, 12:55 PM
It is much quicker to read the book, I usually get the door right on the first try about 90% of the time... sometimes all 3 clues will match up but it will still be trapped. Seems to be more reliable to go with a low wisdom and do the opposite rather than a high wisdom.

palidor
08-27-2007, 03:10 PM
I'm sure Kargon would agree that you need no such things. One barbarian is all you need!

(a couple potions might help too)

Nah, seriously, ran it on elite tonight and just had my no-evasion barbarian do the trap room, the trap doors, and the swimming. Did the trap room with no damage, using speed boost. The swimming part isn't all that bad, just stay low and take it one rock at a time.

You dont even need a barb you just need some one who knows the quest well...
for agro server there is starnite, myself and probly many others...:cool:

iconiclastic
10-14-2007, 04:19 AM
Have everyone hang back from the book except the toon with the lowest wisdom,ideally someone with a -1 to that stat.The DM text will tell that toon that a specific door hides death,however chances are very good that the wisdom check was failed so the text will be lying to that toon and hence that is the door that holds the horn of instinct.It has worked every time providing no one else is near the book,and that the toon does not have a greater heroism buff and has the -1 to wisdom.

iconiclastic
10-14-2007, 05:03 AM
I swim it with my sorc. and my cleric and seldom ever take any damage anymore while barreling forward.The trick is stay low til you get to the left turn right before the up down up part.When you make that turn there will be spikes to your right and the wall to your left,I point myself at the wall while swimming up to catch myself on the top and then just drift over the spikes,once clear of them I swim down then up.After that the current is gone until you swim foreward,to the left is the passage to the horn and to the right is the valve that opens the way to the chest.When going after the horn there are 3 more spike traps,one right one left and one you have to go over.I hug the floor and swim along the left contour lining myself up between the spikes to the left and right and then swim up over the last,and then from there tward the fan til it shuts off and I can get through to the mobs.Killing them is really no challenge at all with a caster or cleric.With my caster I sneak til I can target the elementalist on the left,once you give him the finger the other elementalist moves @ 5' to the left and right into range so I GIVE HIM THE FINGER TO(for being a ******)I flesh to stone the rest and puncture them death.On a cleric I use symbol of fear right behind a blade barrier with superior potency VI and maximised,they charge,take 210 damage each time they pass through it so if the symbol hits them all it totals 840 dam,if not I use gr.command or destruction depending on which type made its save(tank or caster respectively).after that there are a few more spikes to swim through,just stay center through the gates and you will aviod them,once through stay left and down til you hit the wall to the left of the fan,wait for it to stop and swim through.:D