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  1. #1
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default Basic unarmed monk build guide

    For those who are not interested in the discussion and just want to see a straightforward build, check out post #2 for a build which invests fully in monk enhancements and runs in grandmaster of flowers or post #3 for a build which invests in know the angles and runs in legendary dreadnought.

    Recently I've seen a lot of questions asking about how to build an unarmed monk in today's ddo. This guide will cover the basics of unarmed monk builds. Unarmed monks are fairly cookie-cutter in design, so the build options discussed here are by no means mine originally, but with the abundance of questions about them and the lack of builds due to their cookie-cutter nature, I thought it might be useful to put together a very basic guide of sorts. I will not go into exhaustive detail about every option available, but will mention enough to give the reader a general idea of the options.

    Race

    Humans have an advantage because of the extra feat. While monks are not feat starved, their feats are tight. A non-human will have to put off either stunning fist or precision until epics and will have to spend an epic feat on it, thus losing a (non-essential) epic feat (e.g. epic damage reduction). Humans also have easy access to heal amp. Any race with extra starting dex will help you reach the requirements for TWF, but that shouldn't be much of a problem anyway. Several races offer some interesting options through enhancements but none which are overly compelling and, unless you've ground out some racial past lives, few AP will be spent in the racial tree anyway. So, in short, human is optimal but not by much, and any race will do. I will discuss build options throughout this guide as though the race is human but will also mention alternatives for other races when appropriate.

    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 12 . . . 15 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . . . . . .12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 12 . . . 12 . . . 13 . . . 12. . . .+1. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 17 . . . 18. . . . . . . .20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: WIS
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS


    Wis based is really the way to go to keep up the DCs of the monk's special attacks. Monk special attacks offer a lot of crowd control, debuffs, and instakill options. To ignore them is to lose a large portion of what an unarmed monk has to offer. Damage will be based on dex, though, so you'll want that, and con, as your secondary stats. And if you will be taking know the angles, then you will want some int as well.

    This stat spread only requires a +1 int tome (excluding the 34 point build) by level 3 for combat expertise and a +1 dex tome by level 9 for improved TWF. No other tomes are required. If you do not have the required tomes, then you can adjust starting stats accordingly to reach the requirements, or choose a race which will help you reach them.

    With a starting 8 str, you may at times need to be aware of what items you are looting in the early levels (e.g. leave the full plate behind) and sell often. Potions of bull's strength can help with this, just make sure you keep them active. 8 starting str is easily manageable and will not be a problem if you have str tomes or equip some str gear later on.

    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .12. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1
    . . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


    Concentration, heal, and UMD are the only essential skills. Feel free to invest in whatever you prefer after that. On a str dumped build, at least some in jump (especially if you do not have str or jump tomes) will help during the early levels. If you plan to go with scion of the ethereal plane as your legendary feat, then make sure you fully invest in hide as well.

    Feats
    .1 Human. : Stunning Fist
    .1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
    .1 Monk . : Dodge
    .2 Monk . : Mobility
    .3. . . . : Combat Expertise
    .3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
    .6. . . . : Whirlwind Attack
    .6 Monk . : Spring Attack
    .9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
    15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Precision
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Vorpal Strikes
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
    28 Destiny: Tactician
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
    30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Scion of: Ethereal Plane OR Scion of: The Plane of Earth

    Whirlwind attack is a must-have for today's unarmed monk. It's an awesome feat and well worth the 5 feat investment. Trust me, take it, and don't look back. Monk's can now get whirlwind attack as early as level 6 and you will want it as early as possible. If you put it off until later, then you either get it very late in the game or it messes up your TWFing/imp crit progression. Because of this, the TWF, dodge, mobility, combat expertise, spring attack, whirlwind attack, ITWF, imp crit, GTWF feat progression shown above is pretty much set in stone as optimal. You can deviate from it, but you'll be inhibiting your dps potential by doing so.

    As mentioned previously, human has the advantage of taking both stunning fist and precision during heroic levels, which allows them to take epic damage reduction in epics. Precision isn't really needed during heroics, while stunning fist comes in handy against champs, so I would take stunning fist first and put off precision until level 18. If you are not going human, then I would suggest dropping epic damage reduction, taking stunning fist at 18, and taking precision as an epic feat of your choice.

    The optimal order of vorpal strikes, overwhelming crit, and improved martial arts is debatable. I have not crunched any numbers, but I suspect that overwhelming crit offers the most dps. Personally, I like vorpal strikes for thematic reasons and actually prefer to take it first. Overall, though, I don't think it matters too much which order you take them in.

    If you are not running in wind stance or slotting melee alacrity in your gear set, then you will want to take blinding speed at level 27 and move improved martial arts to level 30, dropping epic damage reduction. On a non-human, you will also have to drop one of precision, stunning fist, vorpal strikes, overwhelming crit, or improved martial arts.

    Regarding the legendary feat, I tend to favor tactics so I prefer astral plane, plus it comes with a nice bit of both offense (8% doublestrike) and defense (4 dodge, dodge cap, and reflex saves). If you've gone all-in on hide, then ethereal is a compelling option due to the amount of melee power monks get. And if you prefer one of the elemental feats and are willing to slot spell power for it, then earth is the one I would recommend.

    Enhancements

    Enhancements Option 1 (80 AP)

    Shintao (42 AP)
    • Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent Fist, Touch the Void Dragon, To Seek Perfection
      1. Restoring the Balance, Deft Strikes III
      2. Difficulty at the Beginning, Smite Tainted Creature, Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning I
      3. The Receptive Earth, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike, Wisdom
      4. Lifting the Veil, Tomb of Jade, Instinctive Defense I, Wisdom
      5. Empty Hand Mastery, Kukan-Do, Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Rise of the Phoenix

    Henshin Mystic (23 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff, Incinerating Wave
      1. Mystic Training III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
      2. Eagle Claw Attack, Contemplation III
      3. Lighting the Candle III, Embrace the Void II, Wisdom
      4. Focus

    Ninja Spy (12 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
      1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
      2. Sneak Attack Training, Knock on the Sky

    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery


    Enhancements Option 2 (80 AP)

    Shintao (42 AP)
    • Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent Fist, Touch the Void Dragon, To Seek Perfection
      1. Difficulty at the Beginning, Deft Strikes III
      2. Restoring the Balance, Smite Tainted Creature, Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning I
      3. Lifting the Veil, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike, Wisdom
      4. The Receptive Earth, Tomb of Jade, Instinctive Defense I, Wisdom
      5. Empty Hand Mastery, Kukan-Do, Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Rise of the Phoenix

    Henshin Mystic (16 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff
      1. Mystic Training III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
      2. Knock on the Sky, Contemplation III
      3. Lighting the Candle III

    Ninja Spy (11 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
      1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
      2. Melee/Ranged Power Boost III

    Harper Agent (8 AP)
    • Agent of Good I
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III

    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery


    With enhancements, you have 2 optimal setups. The first one focuses on monk trees for max melee power, while the second invests a little into harper for max DCs. 42 AP in shintao is required for all tier 5s and the capstone. 11 in ninja spy for shadow veil is a given, as is 11 in henshin for 30 melee power from the first 3 cores. These are basically the must-haves. From there, another 12 in henshin gets you 15 more melee power as well as light the candle. Or you can invest 8 in harper for know the angles. Beyond that, it's pretty much whatever you prefer.

    In the two different variations above, I spent AP differently in ninja spy to show alternative ways of getting the 11 for shadow veil. The first one focuses on sneak attack and a ki strike, while the second focuses on melee power boost.

    Epic Destiny

    Destiny Option 1 (24 AP)

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    1. Lily Petal, Enlightenment III, Dance of Flowers III
    2. Hail of Blows
    3. Orchid Blossom, Perfection of Body III
    4. Piercing Clarity II, Perfection of Mind III
    5. Drifting Lotus, Dancing with Flames III
    6. Scattering of Petals, Everything is Nothing

    Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
    3. Legendary Tactics (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    4. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    5. Purge the Wicked (Tier 1 Crusader)


    Destiny Option 2 (24 AP)

    Legendary Dreadnought
    1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
    2. Constitution
    3. Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
    4. (none)
    5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
    6. Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

    Twists of Fate (36 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Symetric Strikes (Tier 4 Primal)
    3. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)


    Again, you have two optimal options for your epic destiny - grandmaster of flowers for more unique monk abilities, or dreadnought for max dps. While an unarmed monk could certainly work in several other destinies, I don't think any others offer enough to be truly competitive with these two options. If going with dreadnought, you will definitely want melee power boost from ninja spy and human damage boost (if you are human) for max boosts. In grandmaster of flowers, you can swap dancing with flames to fit whatever stance you prefer to run in.

    Stances

    Wind will offer the most dps if you do not have melee alacrity. If you do have melee alacrity, then I expect wind and fire to be fairly close, although I have not crunched any numbers. Fire also gives you +50 insight bonus to heal amp if you have jidz-tet'ka or epic jidz-tet'ka. Fire also provides plenty of ki so you can spam your special attacks as much as possible. Don't feel like you have to be stuck in one stance all the time though. One advantage of monk is its versatility and adaptability. If you're tanking or taking too much damage, swap to earth or water. If you don't have enough ki or need more heal amp for reaper, swap to fire.

    Final comment

    Finally, I want to make a comment about what is potentially one of the most confusing aspects of monks to new monk players - the abundance of clicky attacks they get. It is by far more than any other melee class and can be overwhelming. The bottom line is this, just because you have them, does not mean you have to use them. Find a handful of attacks that you seem to use most often and focus on those. Keep the others on a hotbar somewhere so you can either swap them in as needed (e.g. dismissing strike in devil content) or click on them in special situations (e.g. eagle claw against bosses). Again, the monk's versatility is its strength, but that doesn't mean such versatility is required across all content. Rather, let the attacks you use be determined based on the content you are running.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 07-05-2017 at 10:22 AM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  2. #2
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default No harper in grandmaster of flowers

    Pure Human Unarmed Shintao
    Monk 20
    Lawful Neutral Human


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 12 . . . 15 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . . . . . .12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 12 . . . 12 . . . 13 . . . 12. . . .+1. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 17 . . . 18. . . . . . . .20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: WIS
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS


    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Jump. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Tumble. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . 2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
    .1 Human. : Stunning Fist
    .1 Monk . : Dodge
    .2 Monk . : Mobility
    .3. . . . : Combat Expertise
    .3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
    .6. . . . : Whirlwind Attack
    .6 Monk . : Spring Attack
    .9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
    15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Precision
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Vorpal Strikes
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
    28 Destiny: Tactician
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
    30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Shintao (42 AP)
    • Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent Fist, Touch the Void Dragon, To Seek Perfection
      1. Restoring the Balance, Deft Strikes III
      2. Difficulty at the Beginning, Smite Tainted Creature, Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning I
      3. The Receptive Earth, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike, Wisdom
      4. Lifting the Veil, Tomb of Jade, Instinctive Defense I, Wisdom
      5. Empty Hand Mastery, Kukan-Do, Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Rise of the Phoenix

    Henshin Mystic (23 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff, Incinerating Wave
      1. Mystic Training III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
      2. Eagle Claw Attack, Contemplation III
      3. Lighting the Candle III, Embrace the Void II, Wisdom
      4. Focus

    Ninja Spy (12 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
      1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
      2. Sneak Attack Training, Knock on the Sky

    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    1. Lily Petal, Enlightenment III, Dance of Flowers III
    2. Hail of Blows
    3. Orchid Blossom, Perfection of Body III
    4. Piercing Clarity II, Perfection of Mind III
    5. Drifting Lotus, Dancing with Flames III
    6. Scattering of Petals, Everything is Nothing

    Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
    3. Legendary Tactics (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    4. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    5. Purge the Wicked (Tier 1 Crusader)
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 07-04-2017 at 05:57 PM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  3. #3
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Default With harper in legendary dreadnought

    Pure Human Unarmed Shintao
    Monk 20
    Lawful Neutral Human


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 12 . . . 15 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . . . . . .12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 12 . . . 12 . . . 13 . . . 12. . . .+1. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 17 . . . 18. . . . . . . .20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: WIS
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS


    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Jump. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Tumble. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . 2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
    .1 Human. : Stunning Fist
    .1 Monk . : Dodge
    .2 Monk . : Mobility
    .3. . . . : Combat Expertise
    .3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
    .6. . . . : Whirlwind Attack
    .6 Monk . : Spring Attack
    .9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
    15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Precision
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Vorpal Strikes
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
    28 Destiny: Tactician
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
    30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Shintao (42 AP)
    • Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent Fist, Touch the Void Dragon, To Seek Perfection
      1. Difficulty at the Beginning, Deft Strikes III
      2. Restoring the Balance, Smite Tainted Creature, Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning I
      3. Lifting the Veil, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike, Wisdom
      4. The Receptive Earth, Tomb of Jade, Instinctive Defense I, Wisdom
      5. Empty Hand Mastery, Kukan-Do, Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Rise of the Phoenix

    Henshin Mystic (14 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff
      1. Mystic Training III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
      2. Contemplation III
      3. Lighting the Candle III

    Ninja Spy (13 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
      1. Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training
      2. Sneak Attack Training, Melee/Ranged Power Boost III

    Harper Agent (8 AP)
    • Agent of Good I
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III

    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Legendary Dreadnought
    1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
    2. Constitution
    3. Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
    4. (none)
    5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
    6. Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

    Twists of Fate (36 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Symetric Strikes (Tier 4 Primal)
    3. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 07-05-2017 at 10:21 AM.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  4. #4
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Default

    +1

    This basic idea is exactly how I run my monk.
    He's on a halfling life right now, and essentially just skipped precision but yeah.
    ~Sarlona~
    Maelodic - Gigglelock| | Zeriyn - Woof

  5. #5
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Solid stuff. I know there are those here that swear by Ethereal. You should be able to reasonably get 90 Hide for 30 SA. 30 x 2.75 (275 blitzed melee power) x 1.5 (SA damage scaling) = 124 damage. This will of course vary depending on gear/investment, but people should know that it's 100+ damage that they're playing with here. To give that up, I take it more as a question: Are you looking to make Quivering Palm effective? Go Astral (I happen to be in this camp). Maximize tanking? Go Plane of Earth. Without that, I don't really think the small defensive/utility gains outweigh the DPS loss. Especially on a class that the ability to reliably apply SA damage with stuns on trash and Unbalancing Strike on bosses.

    Which brings me to my other point - I consider Unbalancing Strike to be the most important Ki Strike for a Monk to take. Between SA from Ninja Spy, SA from items (which you can get 33 SA damage from - see math above for the importance), past lives, and especially if you invest in Ethereal... you really want to be able to reliably apply that damage. And even if you're not the one tanking, allowing your tank to get that damage is still useful. Unbalancing Strike also has another big use if you use a trip of any sort, be it the base ability, GMoF Drifting Lotus, Rogue TA trip, etc. I haven't done Reaper testing, but in EE/LE, the difference was between the target(s) getting back up almost instantly or staying down for the full duration of the trip. That is a huge CC difference.

    I also find it interesting you don't take Rejuvenating Cocoon on any of your twists. Why not? Especially if you're investing into POS spell power for your FoL finisher, that work also makes Cocoon more effective. You won't always have FoL ready, the 150 temp HP doesn't get scaled in Reaper so can still save your life, and helps party members without the need of serious DPS breaks to cast interruptable heal scrolls. For me, casting it was the same as casting 2-3 heal scrolls, which is nothing to sniff at. I admit I'm coming back from a break, so haven't had a chance to try high level Reapers yet. Did something change?


    Additional Comments:
    - I like taking Damage Boost from Legendary Dreadnaught rather than 2 points of CON. Using an Action Boost gives you +1[w] and 50% helpless damage, so I run into every combat with a boost active. And if you get some racial PLs or invest deeper into Human, you can get +3 to WIS and/or DEX while under an action boost. Personally I run into my first combat with Haste Boost to quickly build up my Blitz, and use up my damage boosts on all other combat instances saving my Haste Boost for the boss which also stack my Human damage boost with to maximize DPS. If you plan on shrining before a boss, you can burn your haste/human boosts first... but the case is you should never reach a shrine with leftover boosts and have had a battle without using them. These extra boosts ensure you can always keep one going.

    - Considering that you take 36 Epic past lives for granted, I see no consideration for Heroic Completionist. 2 to all abilities means +1 DC (possibly +2 if it pushes you over on KtA), +1 to all saves, +30 HP, +2 AC, +1 attack/damage, and +3 to all skills. There is also the side benefits of helping dump stat STR be farther away from debuff-uncentering, or those that build for Ki Shout have better taunts. Personally I drop Precision for this - my build has high AC, so CE gives 20+ more AC to me along with the 20 PRR from Imp CE in LD, which is a worthwhile boost. But Epic DR is another candidate for making room - and in my case, comes out ahead by 10 PRR.

    - Investing 23 points into Jump is always a waste. With Jump items, Jump potions/clickies, epic level skill bonuses, etc, there is no reason you can't give yourself max jump even on a dump STR char, no tomes, and 0 points into Jump. Beyond the core Concentration, Heal, and UMD, my suggested skills: Hide, so you can always swap to Ethereal without a LR. Spot so you can see hidden enemies and detect hidden doors. Search so you can find hidden doors. Diplomacy for mob control - being able to more effectively dump aggro back to the tank or to the person kiting, or whatever you need to do is useful. Enough Tumble to have 36 by cap to have the full animations so you can avoid damage while blocking or just because it looks cool. Spellcraft to boost Color procs. Perform for certain interacts and Color procs. Only heroic levels will you fall short with Jump if you don't have access to Jump potions or a friendly buff, and I don't consider that as worthwhile giving up skill points on something that would always be useful.

    - Personally I am investing into Racial PLs, freeing up all points to go into other trees. My own split will be 21 Henshin, 11 Ninja Spy, 41 Shintao, 7 Harper. With enough racial PLs, it is possible to afford one of your splits and get 2 tiers of human heal amp. Or Deep Gnome has Wisdom as well as useful defensive APs with dodging through enemies, PRR, AC, dodge cap, saves, etc making investment nice.
    Last edited by DrawingGuy; 07-04-2017 at 11:32 PM.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    +1

    This basic idea is exactly how I run my monk.
    He's on a halfling life right now, and essentially just skipped precision but yeah.
    Thanks Maelodic. Yeah, any race will do as long as you are willing to accept the feat limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Solid stuff.
    Thanks for the feedback DrawingGuy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I know there are those here that swear by Ethereal. You should be able to reasonably get 90 Hide for 30 SA. 30 x 2.75 (275 blitzed melee power) x 1.5 (SA damage scaling) = 124 damage. This will of course vary depending on gear/investment, but people should know that it's 100+ damage that they're playing with here. To give that up, I take it more as a question: Are you looking to make Quivering Palm effective? Go Astral (I happen to be in this camp). Maximize tanking? Go Plane of Earth. Without that, I don't really think the small defensive/utility gains outweigh the DPS loss. Especially on a class that the ability to reliably apply SA damage with stuns on trash and Unbalancing Strike on bosses.
    I agree, ethereal is a very compelling choice, but I can see some reasons for going astral and even earth.

    I'm not trying to nitpick about the math here, but how do you get 275 melee power? I see:

    40 henshin cores + 35 shintao cores + 6 TWF line + 30 epic levels + 18 dreadnought cores + 70 max blitz stacks + 8 legendary ring of prowess + 2 mysterious remnant tomes = 209 permanent + 30 ninja spy melee power boost = 239 temporary

    This doesn't change the value of ethereal at all, I'm just curious how you got to 275. What am I missing? Mythic and reaper bonuses are too inconsistent to count those imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Which brings me to my other point - I consider Unbalancing Strike to be the most important Ki Strike for a Monk to take. Between SA from Ninja Spy, SA from items (which you can get 33 SA damage from - see math above for the importance), past lives, and especially if you invest in Ethereal... you really want to be able to reliably apply that damage. And even if you're not the one tanking, allowing your tank to get that damage is still useful. Unbalancing Strike also has another big use if you use a trip of any sort, be it the base ability, GMoF Drifting Lotus, Rogue TA trip, etc. I haven't done Reaper testing, but in EE/LE, the difference was between the target(s) getting back up almost instantly or staying down for the full duration of the trip. That is a huge CC difference.
    To be honest, I had not considered unbalancing strikes while playing my monk. All other DC based shintao abilities use 10 + monk level + wis mod + stunning bonuses, whereas unbalancing strikes uses 10 + half monk level + wis mod + trip bonuses. I only slotted for stun, not for trip, so I just kind of ignored it assuming the DC would be too low.

    I reviewed it while writing this guide, however, and had second thoughts on it. Against any mob vulnerable to stuns, you can make them vulnerable to sneak attack damage using one of the many stuns monks get. Against bosses, who are not vulnerable to stuns, you could simply swap out your stun item for a trip item to use unbalancing strikes.

    So, in short, I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I also find it interesting you don't take Rejuvenating Cocoon on any of your twists. Why not? Especially if you're investing into POS spell power for your FoL finisher, that work also makes Cocoon more effective. You won't always have FoL ready, the 150 temp HP doesn't get scaled in Reaper so can still save your life, and helps party members without the need of serious DPS breaks to cast interruptable heal scrolls. For me, casting it was the same as casting 2-3 heal scrolls, which is nothing to sniff at.
    I never found cocoon necessary on my monk. I always found the healing curse and fists of light finisher sufficient to keep myself up as well as help the party out. I do use wholeness of spirit as my "oh ****" button when fists of light finisher isn't available, but that's not an option if you're running in dreadnought. Part of this is planning also. If I'm in a boss fight, and I know I'm going to be taking heavy spike damage, I'll spam fists of light to keep the finisher prepped for when it's needed. If I'm at full health and know I won't need a full heal for a bit, then I'll hit other attacks such as jade strike, eagle claw, knock the sky, or triple earth finisher. The debuffs from jade strike, eagle claw, and knock the sky last long enough that you don't have to spam them constantly to keep them up. You have time to hit fists of light 3 times and the finisher to heal yourself before you need to get back to them. Again, this requires planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I admit I'm coming back from a break, so haven't had a chance to try high level Reapers yet. Did something change?
    I don't bother with reaper in epics, which seems to be true for most players, at least on Sarlona. I rarely see lfm's up for reaper in epic levels. Reaper is the new standard during heroics, but epics are still EE for streak or saga, or EN/EH for dailies. Reaper in epics is more of an exercise in tedium than challenge. So the value of cocoon in reaper is largely irrelevant for most players, at least based on my experience and observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    - I like taking Damage Boost from Legendary Dreadnaught rather than 2 points of CON. Using an Action Boost gives you +1[w] and 50% helpless damage, so I run into every combat with a boost active. And if you get some racial PLs or invest deeper into Human, you can get +3 to WIS and/or DEX while under an action boost. Personally I run into my first combat with Haste Boost to quickly build up my Blitz, and use up my damage boosts on all other combat instances saving my Haste Boost for the boss which also stack my Human damage boost with to maximize DPS. If you plan on shrining before a boss, you can burn your haste/human boosts first... but the case is you should never reach a shrine with leftover boosts and have had a battle without using them. These extra boosts ensure you can always keep one going.
    Damage boost in dreadnought is certainly an option. With human damage boost, ninja spy melee power boost, dreadnought haste boost and 5 base + 1 ship buff + 3 dreadnought extra action boosts, that's a total of 27 action boosts or 9 straight minutes boosted with action hero. You could certainly go for another 3 minutes with dreadnought damage boost if you need or want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    - Considering that you take 36 Epic past lives for granted
    I don't take that for granted at all. If I don't list max twist options, I will inevitably get the question, "What would you twist if..." So I always preemptively answer that question by simply filling out the twists. Twists are always something to work toward anyway. You could just as easily make the critique that I assume max destinies in what is largely a guide for newbies.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I see no consideration for Heroic Completionist.
    Correct. As I said in the intro, this is a basic guide and "I will not go into exhaustive detail about every option available." Plus, as a basic guide, this probably isn't for most completionists. They are more than likely aware of the costs, benefits, and mechanics of including the completionist feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    - Investing 23 points into Jump is always a waste. With Jump items, Jump potions/clickies, epic level skill bonuses, etc, there is no reason you can't give yourself max jump even on a dump STR char, no tomes, and 0 points into Jump. Beyond the core Concentration, Heal, and UMD, my suggested skills: Hide, so you can always swap to Ethereal without a LR. Spot so you can see hidden enemies and detect hidden doors. Search so you can find hidden doors. Diplomacy for mob control - being able to more effectively dump aggro back to the tank or to the person kiting, or whatever you need to do is useful. Enough Tumble to have 36 by cap to have the full animations so you can avoid damage while blocking or just because it looks cool. Spellcraft to boost Color procs. Perform for certain interacts and Color procs. Only heroic levels will you fall short with Jump if you don't have access to Jump potions or a friendly buff, and I don't consider that as worthwhile giving up skill points on something that would always be useful.
    All of the skills you mention are certainly good options for the reasons you mention, but none of them are essential. Again, I'm only trying to cover the essentials. I'm not trying to exhaustively review all options available. I simply posted some fully fleshed out builds so that those who wanted to follow a build rather than a guide had some options available.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I agree, ethereal is a very compelling choice, but I can see some reasons for going astral and even earth.

    I'm not trying to nitpick about the math here, but how do you get 275 melee power? I see:

    40 henshin cores + 35 shintao cores + 6 TWF line + 30 epic levels + 18 dreadnought cores + 70 max blitz stacks + 8 legendary ring of prowess + 2 mysterious remnant tomes = 209 permanent + 30 ninja spy melee power boost = 239 temporary

    This doesn't change the value of ethereal at all, I'm just curious how you got to 275. What am I missing? Mythic and reaper bonuses are too inconsistent to count those imo.
    Mythic and Reaper wouldn't get you that high anyways - I must have duplicated a number while adding in my head. Should have double checked my math. Good catch on that, but in any case we're still talking 100 damage. Though note unless something changed, TWF doesn't give any MP.



    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    To be honest, I had not considered unbalancing strikes while playing my monk. All other DC based shintao abilities use 10 + monk level + wis mod + stunning bonuses, whereas unbalancing strikes uses 10 + half monk level + wis mod + trip bonuses. I only slotted for stun, not for trip, so I just kind of ignored it assuming the DC would be too low.

    I reviewed it while writing this guide, however, and had second thoughts on it. Against any mob vulnerable to stuns, you can make them vulnerable to sneak attack damage using one of the many stuns monks get. Against bosses, who are not vulnerable to stuns, you could simply swap out your stun item for a trip item to use unbalancing strikes.

    So, in short, I see your point.
    Yep, I don't bother with Unbalancing Strike on trash mobs (especially since the buff to the Jade line allows me to CC most things eliminating the need for me to use trip), but bosses are more than enough reason to need/want the move. However you should not be removing your stun item - Jade Strike applies 10% vuln, and relies on a stun DC, so you need it for that. Personally I always plan for either a Combat Expertise item or load both Trip and Stun. My efforts on trying to make Quivering Palm effective automatically apply to Unbalancing Strike as well, so technically I could get away without Trip items, but I like having no fail so I know I'm always getting my SA.



    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I never found cocoon necessary on my monk. I always found the healing curse and fists of light finisher sufficient to keep myself up as well as help the party out. I do use wholeness of spirit as my "oh ****" button when fists of light finisher isn't available, but that's not an option if you're running in dreadnought. Part of this is planning also. If I'm in a boss fight, and I know I'm going to be taking heavy spike damage, I'll spam fists of light to keep the finisher prepped for when it's needed. If I'm at full health and know I won't need a full heal for a bit, then I'll hit other attacks such as jade strike, eagle claw, knock the sky, or triple earth finisher. The debuffs from jade strike, eagle claw, and knock the sky last long enough that you don't have to spam them constantly to keep them up. You have time to hit fists of light 3 times and the finisher to heal yourself before you need to get back to them. Again, this requires planning.

    I don't bother with reaper in epics, which seems to be true for most players, at least on Sarlona. I rarely see lfm's up for reaper in epic levels. Reaper is the new standard during heroics, but epics are still EE for streak or saga, or EN/EH for dailies. Reaper in epics is more of an exercise in tedium than challenge. So the value of cocoon in reaper is largely irrelevant for most players, at least based on my experience and observations.
    Admittedly a lot of my thinking was for Reaper - I came back and went straight into a Racial TR train, so haven't really paid attention to how commonly reaper Epics were ran. I would have thought the increased chance of mythic bonuses along with the chance of Reaper bonuses on items would have encouraged reaper runs. The few I did run in epic levels I was generally able to keep people topped off with my FOL as well as myself as it was only r2, but there was always the odd caster or nub that sprints around randomly when low health so I can't help them with my finisher, so I was still using my cocoon in every run. I'd take it as "it depends on the party". If you're with a bunch of bursting warlocks or other melee range toons, or with a party of people that will listen to you so they will give you the chance to heal them in close range, you should be golden with FOL. For parties where several people will be out of your range generally in combat, or on higher difficulties, load cocoon - or just bring res scrolls and not care.



    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Damage boost in dreadnought is certainly an option. With human damage boost, ninja spy melee power boost, dreadnought haste boost and 5 base + 1 ship buff + 3 dreadnought extra action boosts, that's a total of 27 action boosts or 9 straight minutes boosted with action hero. You could certainly go for another 3 minutes with dreadnought damage boost if you need or want it.
    If you're loading Ninja Spy boost, then you wouldn't need the extra from Legendary Dreadnought. I personally don't, opting for Agility for the Concentration (as I use Ki Shout), Reflex saves, and max dodge bonus.



    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    All of the skills you mention are certainly good options for the reasons you mention, but none of them are essential. Again, I'm only trying to cover the essentials. I'm not trying to exhaustively review all options available. I simply posted some fully fleshed out builds so that those who wanted to follow a build rather than a guide had some options available.
    Yep, I know you were not trying to be exhaustive - it was more that you directly suggested jump in your fleshed out builds, and I consider that to be a waste. I personally probably would have picked Spot as the default as a Wis based Monk will have effective spot if invested even without items, which saves slotting that.


    I do appreciate build posts like this. A lot of people ask me as well how I build my unarmed/handwrap Monk, but I never seem to get around to it as I'm always trying to perfect my build, and with the constant item grind wheel and tons of new PLs added in the recent years, I simply have never reached a 100% complete state. However the core build of an unarmed Monk is indeed very cookie cutter, and this is a great place to start.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    TWF doesn't give any MP.
    You are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    you should not be removing your stun item - Jade Strike applies 10% vuln, and relies on a stun DC, so you need it for that. Personally I always plan for either a Combat Expertise item or load both Trip and Stun. My efforts on trying to make Quivering Palm effective automatically apply to Unbalancing Strike as well, so technically I could get away without Trip items, but I like having no fail so I know I'm always getting my SA.
    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I would have thought the increased chance of mythic bonuses along with the chance of Reaper bonuses on items would have encouraged reaper runs.
    This is actually a bit of a joke on the forums. People have spent a good deal of time farming and have seen basically no increase in drop chance or increase in mythic/reaper bonuses. And although devs have confirmed that there is a higher chance based on the number of skulls, they have refused to say anything about how much higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    If you're loading Ninja Spy boost, then you wouldn't need the extra from Legendary Dreadnought. I personally don't, opting for Agility for the Concentration (as I use Ki Shout), Reflex saves, and max dodge bonus.
    I would agree, if you're not taking ninja spy melee power boost, then I would want both damage and haste boost from dreadnought.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    its been forever since i did a monk so thinking of retrying one.

    questions -
    first self healing in reaper - fol still worth it?
    second - since we are locked into taking ce - is the prr thinggie in legendary dread worth taking and turnin it on? i really feel like its not as it lowers your dps, and increases the number of hits your taking
    third - is ww wai? i know i know but i would hate to make the investment and get screwed later on.

    thanks and interesting builds
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    first self healing in reaper - fol still worth it?
    That depends on how high skull you want to do. No melee is in very good shape in high skull reaper right now. For 1-4 skull, yes, the healing curse and fists of light finisher works pretty well, of course the value of it decreases the higher skulls you go, but that's true of any self healing. 5-6 skull is where it starts to really become questionable, at least that was the break point for me. Also, I'm only talking about heroics. I haven't really run reaper in epics because it doesn't seem worth it.

    The interesting thing about the healing curse is that it is not reduced by reaper. So if you push your heal amp to an even 100, it doubles the value of your healing curse. So from 0-99 heal amp, the curse returns 1-2 hp. From 100-199 heal amp, you get 2-4 hp. From 200-299 heal amp, you get 3-6 hp back on every hit. This is only useful if you can stand toe-to-toe with mobs in reaper, so pump your AC and dodge and keep shadow veil up to maximize your miss chance.

    The fists of light finisher is reduced by reaper. It's still great for r1-3, but you'll really start to notice a difference in r4+.

    I'm not sure if there is a hidden question in your question, so I'll answer it anyway. I think you might be asking if fists of darkness is an option. There really is no alternative to fists of light for an unarmed build unfortunately. Fists of darkness has very little synergy with an unarmed build for several reasons. First, the increased crit range and multiplier for handwraps is in shintao tier 5. The main reason to take fists of darkness is for touch of death, which is a tier 5 in ninja spy. And the crit range bonus in ninja spy's tier 5 does not apply to handwraps, although the crit multiplier in the ninja spy capstone does. So taking touch of death is a serious dps hit because you miss out on +1 crit range for handwraps and you have to wait until level 20 to get the +1 multiplier. Not to mention, the shintao tier 5s, and the higher level cores and capstone, are much better than those found in ninja spy. Second, the passive +1 damage from the ninjitsu line, which are the pre-reqs for touch of death, do not apply to handwraps. A distant third is that sting of the ninja does not work with handwraps even if you have the vorpal strikes epic feat, so you lose what little poison benefits are available in the ninja spy tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    second - since we are locked into taking ce - is the prr thinggie in legendary dread worth taking and turnin it on?
    I don't know, to be honest. I tend to favor dps, so I've always kept precision on. If you want to emphasize defenses, then combat expertise with improved combat expertise (twisted if not in dreadnought) is certainly a good option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    i really feel like its not as it lowers your dps, and increases the number of hits your taking
    It should not increase the number of hits you take. It should decrease them due to a higher AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    third - is ww wai? i know i know but i would hate to make the investment and get screwed later on.
    I don't expect it to change with wraps now or anytime in the future. I have not seen anything to indicate that the devs disapprove of the way whirlwind attack works with handwraps. I know that it is still useless with weapons due to a long pause after the animation and that it only hits each enemy once. So if it does get nerfed with handwraps, then it will be a completely useless feat for every build, well, maybe not tree builds.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post



    It should not increase the number of hits you take. It should decrease them due to a higher AC.


    i was saying you take more hits because you take longer to kill the enemy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    i was saying you take more hits because you take longer to kill the enemy
    Oh right. Yeah, that's true.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    I wouldn't worry about Handwraps having their WWA nerfed - they specifically made the change after the handwrap change, and if anything, other classes will get similar treatment to allow WWA to strike twice. I still miss the 2 strikes * offhand * double for up to 8 strikes, but still glad they made the effort to keep it viable.


    As for Combat Expertise, I personally run it with Improved CE from Legendary Dreadnought. Note, however, that my monk is designed to be a tank/off tank. With Imp CE, I'm able to break 230 PRR (36 PL + 15 Earth + 10 meditation + 20 Iron Skin + 12 Henshin cores + 2 tomes + 45 item + 22 insightful + 11 quality + 20 Imp CE + 30 Blitz + 10 Epic DR) and 250 AC in Earth, and 200 PRR and 210+ AC outside of it. I'm missing 10-30 PRR from Diefic Warding as I take Dire Charge instead, 20 from Scion of Earth, and 36 more from twists (15 GMoF while earth, 15 situational from Ephemeral Evolution, 6 from Fury's DR) for over 280 PRR + 35 situational... but that's making massive sacrifices for little gain. I'm currently working on increasing my AC as I'm in the effective range, so everything I get helps.

    For me to get Precision, it would be a 30 PRR loss along with 20+ AC as I'd give up Epic DR and using CE for it. If it is truly hopeless for melees in high level Reaper as everything just 1-shots you anyways, I'll probably give up tanking for max CC and DPS (or just play my Warlock), but I'm hoping that is not the case.

    The thing is, this game has always been about maximizing your DPS. Build all you can with just enough defenses to survive (as a stone does 0 damage). So I would suggest that unless you're looking to tank with your Monk, go Precision. If you find yourself dying often, try out CE to see how much it helps you. If CE is your flavor, then you can swap out Precision. Completionist, Blinding Speed, Epic DR (if you didn't already take it), Epic Reflexes (especially useful against mechanics like Miior's), Deflect Arrows, Force of Personality...
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  14. #14
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I wouldn't worry about Handwraps having their WWA nerfed - they specifically made the change after the handwrap change
    I wasn't sure about my memory of this, so I didn't mention, but I thought that it did get broken after the handwrap update and they specifically changed it to function as it currently does. Thanks for the the confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    if anything, other classes will get similar treatment to allow WWA to strike twice.
    This is my expectation as well. If anything changes about it, it will be to make it more effective for weapon users.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    As for Combat Expertise, I personally run it with Improved CE from Legendary Dreadnought. Note, however, that my monk is designed to be a tank/off tank. With Imp CE, I'm able to break 230 PRR (36 PL + 15 Earth + 10 meditation + 20 Iron Skin + 12 Henshin cores + 2 tomes + 45 item + 22 insightful + 11 quality + 20 Imp CE + 30 Blitz + 10 Epic DR) and 250 AC in Earth, and 200 PRR and 210+ AC outside of it. I'm missing 10-30 PRR from Diefic Warding as I take Dire Charge instead, 20 from Scion of Earth, and 36 more from twists (15 GMoF while earth, 15 situational from Ephemeral Evolution, 6 from Fury's DR) for over 280 PRR + 35 situational... but that's making massive sacrifices for little gain. I'm currently working on increasing my AC as I'm in the effective range, so everything I get helps.

    For me to get Precision, it would be a 30 PRR loss along with 20+ AC as I'd give up Epic DR and using CE for it. If it is truly hopeless for melees in high level Reaper as everything just 1-shots you anyways, I'll probably give up tanking for max CC and DPS (or just play my Warlock), but I'm hoping that is not the case.
    It's good to hear a more defensive/tank oriented perspective. I have little experience with that playstyle for any build, so I don't have much to offer, but I know monks have that potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    The thing is, this game has always been about maximizing your DPS. Build all you can with just enough defenses to survive (as a stone does 0 damage).
    I will say, reaper is changing this. Damage is nerfed so hard on higher skulls, and melee are necessarily toe to toe, so they need to focus more on defenses if they want to run higher skulls. The problem is that mob damage is pushed so high that you can't get your defenses high enough it seems. Damage avoidance becomes more valuable than damage mitigation, but at some point, you are going to get hit, so you can't ignore mitigation and really want that as high as possible also. Keep in mind, this really only applies to high skulls. If you stick with low skulls, then just follow the previous standard of max dps with good enough defenses.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I will say, reaper is changing this. Damage is nerfed so hard on higher skulls, and melee are necessarily toe to toe, so they need to focus more on defenses if they want to run higher skulls. The problem is that mob damage is pushed so high that you can't get your defenses high enough it seems. Damage avoidance becomes more valuable than damage mitigation, but at some point, you are going to get hit, so you can't ignore mitigation and really want that as high as possible also. Keep in mind, this really only applies to high skulls. If you stick with low skulls, then just follow the previous standard of max dps with good enough defenses.
    A human with Precision + Scion of Ethereal + Rogue active past life (rather than Epic DR as it gives 25 SA damage at cap, albeit only 3 minutes worth per rest - but that should be more than enough for most bosses) along with the rest of the core unarmed monk core feats is what I consider to be a "pure monk unarmed DPS" build. However if that damage is nerfed to the ground, this is where my bit more "flavor" preference of extreme investment to make Quivering Palm work may begin to shine... doesn't matter how much damage is nerfed if you can insta-kill it. Sure, it doesn't help on bosses, but if you get there faster, makes up for a slightly slower boss fight (assuming you can actually tank it of course).
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  16. #16
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    like i said - its been a while. for elite at least during heroics what do you guys do? just pots with high healing amp? or umd for heal scrolls?
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
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    Community Member JoeShmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    like i said - its been a while. for elite at least during heroics what do you guys do? just pots with high healing amp? or umd for heal scrolls?
    New to this thread, but figured I'd chime in with my $0.02. Having run solely a monk since my start with DDO back in the day, I personally have never had a problem soloing the majority of the heroic quests with just simple healing potions, as well as the fists of light finisher which has recently been buffed which means it should be even more efficient (also only have 2 PLs so don't worry about needing a lot of prerequisites to make this work). I personally don't use scrolls for healing, but the majority of people will tell you that yes, it is a good idea to have a high UMD to cast scrolls with. Bottom line, if built appropriately/efficiently, healing potions and FoL finisher should suffice for soloing heroic quests. If you're on Thelanis, feel free to hit me up and we can run some quests and I can give you some pointers; monk's name is Handsomebob.

    Cheers!

  18. #18
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    like i said - its been a while. for elite at least during heroics what do you guys do? just pots with high healing amp? or umd for heal scrolls?
    For elite, fists of light healing curse and finisher work just fine. As I mentioned previously, it's nice to push your heal amp up to an even 100 so your healing curse hits you for double or triple. Getting 2/4 hp back on every hit is more than enough to keep you up most of the time, especially if you're keeping your PRR and damage avoidance up. Unless you have past lives and fully invest, you probably won't reach 200 heal amp (for a 3/6 return every hit) until epics.

    It's about 4+ skull reaper where they (and all self healing, in fact) start to fall behind.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Community Member Gargoyle69's Avatar
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    +1. Thanks for doing this CThru!

    I was seeing the proliferation of posts ever since the monk pass of people asking for monk builds, advice on monks, etc, and started writing up a monk guide like this, but never finished it, and I think secretly hoped someone more knowledgeable would come along and do it. And lo, seeing you and DrawingGuy in this thread makes me very happy

    I'd also like to add that I am another who likes my monks tanky and really enjoy playing them in that role, and while they're definitely no elven steel maiden, they function very well in that regard in elite, but I haven't tried them in reaper. But I would very much like to, to see if they can work well in that environment too.

    So I'm very keen to hear from DG or anyone else's experience if they do end up tanking in reaper, what they do, how they go, what changes to the build they make, etc.

    Edit : I realise this thread is intended as a basic guide only so apologies if reaper tanking is out of scope.

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gargoyle69 View Post
    Edit : I realise this thread is intended as a basic guide only so apologies if reaper tanking is out of scope.
    That's fine with me. I have no problem if this thread evolves into a discussion of all things unarmed monk related. I may even provide links in the OP to specific posts in the thread if someone covers a particular topic sufficiently or posts a full build or something else which may be useful. A basic guide is all I felt capable of doing, but I see no reason why this thread can't evolve to become more than that if that is where others want to take it.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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