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  1. #1
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Default Favor Revamp Proposal

    Favor is an old mechanic in DDO, and even in the past, it didn't worked very well. Some favor tiers and patrons are clearly better than others, and a good number of them only need to get done once per character (like Phiarlan 150) or account (like Cannith 150). I would like to propose a revamp of the system based on the following principles:

    • Favor tiers would be linear. So you will always get favor rewards at the same points from every patron. This would also give devs some control about new favor tiers, instead of the all-around ranks we have today (some are 75-150, others 125-250-375, etc)
    • Favor rewards will either be a granted feat (like Draconic Vitality), that will vanish upon HTR; a special shop access; or a special unique consumable item.
    • No favor reward will give out extra inventory or bank slots. They will be accessible via other means.
    • Anything bought in a favor shop will be bound to character. Anything upgraded via a favor shop will become bound to character.
    • Any permanent item previously granted via favor (Harper's Pin, Pendant of Time) will stay as a legacy item.


    So, putting out the elephant in the room first: Inventory slots will be allowed to upgrade from the start. You only have to pay Rio in the Harbor with plat + portable hole (or shards, as is currently) for your free 2 tab upgrades. Bank space will also be accessible from the start, and you only have to pay the plat cost to unlock them (also as currently you have to pay). This could even have space for some advertisement for store-bought inventory space.

    Now for the favor tiers, considering current game status:

    Total Favor: (Current max is 5,198)

    Total Favor will give you something every 750 favor. Every tier will give you an account unlock (server-based) and a minor consumable (BtC). Where you read "any skill tome", obviously, excludes UMD (because Turbine wants to keep them separated)

    • 750: Access to Drow; Choice of any +1 ability or skill tome, 5000 Guild Renown, or a Medium Experience Elixir.
    • 1500: Access to 32-points builds; Choice of any +2 upgrade ability tome, any +1 skill tome, 5000 Guild Renown, a Medium Jewel of Fortune, or a Portable hole.
    • 2250: Access to Veteran Status 4; Choice of any +2 upgrade skill tome, 5000 Guild Renown, a Medium Experience Elixir, or a Medium Slayer Count Boost.
    • 3000: Access to Favored Soul; Choice of any +3 upgrade ability tome, any +2 upgrade skill tome, 5000 Guild Renown, a Medium Jewel of Fortune, or 6 Elixir of Supreme Ability.
    • 3750: Access to Veteran Status 7; Choice of any +4 upgrade ability tome, any +3 upgrade skill tome, 10000 Guild Renown, a Major Experience Elixir, a Greater Slayer Count Boost, or 10 Elixir of Superior Mnemonic Enhancement.
    • 4500: Access to Artificer; Choice of any +3 upgrade skill tome, 10000 Guild Renown, a Large Jewel of Fortune, 6 elixir of Supreme Ability, or a Rest of the Eladrin.
    • 5250: (currently inacessible) Access to Harper Agent enhancement tree; Choice of any +5 upgrade ability tome, any +3 upgrade skill tome, 15000 Guild Renown, a Superior Experience Elixir, a Major Slayer Count Boost, or 30 Elixir of Superior Mnemonic Enhancement.


    I kept the skill tomes limited to +3 because right now, if someone really wants to fully upgrade all skills to +3 they can already do via sagas, so it was balanced. I put Artificer and Harper Agent as total favor unlocks to kept the theme "account unlocks are on total favor".

    Coin Lords: (Current max is 608)

    Coin Lords (and every other patron down the line) will give out favor rewards every 100 favor.

    • 100: The Coin Lords will grant your character a discount in every vendor in Stormreach. This includes Harbor, Marketplace, the Twelve, Lordsmarch Plaza, and all Houses (Just like now this is handled by a specific quest per zone), but not external zones, like Korthos Village, Zawabi's Refuge, or Eveningstar.
    • 200: You get the feat Stormreach Reputation, that grants you a +1 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Haggle and Intimidate.
    • 300: The Coin Lords will extend their discount range to every area in Eberron (But still not Eveningstar)
    • 400: The feat Stormreach Reputation is granted a second time (tech-wise, make it like Trap Sense or Toughness, only one entrance in the feat list, saying "acquired X times")
    • 500: Reward list choice between: A unique armor cosmetic (gold-plated, BtC), 4 Spirit Cakes, 10 Chocolate Covered Humbug, or 5000 Guild Renown.
    • 600: The feat Stormreach Reputation is granted a third time.


    Coin Lords quests involves protecting Stormreach directly against external or internal threats. As such, their rewards should be related to the city. At even hundreds, you get to upgrade the favor feat, and at odd hundreds you get something unique. The main call for the 500 favor reward is the cosmetic armor, and the rest is just to fill a list, so we don't end with current PDK problem of a reward tier being a puppy everyone already have.

    The Free Agents: (Current max is 651)

    • 100: Grants access to the Free Agents vendor in the Harbor. He sells basic trapmaking ingredients, and +1/+2 tools for a reasonable price.
    • 200: You get the Feat Chronicle's Reporter, that gives you a +1 bonus to Listen, Spot, and Search.
    • 300: The shop gain access to +3/+4 tools and unadorned vials.
    • 400: You get the feat Chronicle's Reporter a second time.
    • 500: The shop gain access to +5 tools and Trap parts (so, while you CAN, you don't NEED to farm trap parts for trapmaking). Also you get a reward list choice composed of: unique armor skin (something coat-like as golden age investigators, BtC), unique helm skin (Fedora-like), 30 Potions of Invisibility (CL 10), a unique 500 stacks of +6 tools, or 5000 Guild Renown
    • 600: You get the feat Chronicle's Reporter a third time.


    Free Agents usually are on Stormreach, but don't really care about Stormreach. They are doing their thing, and if Stormreach fall, they just move somewhere else. As such, their main focus in that every single one of them is the Stormreach's Chronicles, the journal derivate from the Korranberg's Chronicles that run in Khorvaire. The more you know about the free agents, the better you understand what slips between the Coin Lord's fingers.

    Agents of Argonnessen: (Current max is 336)

    • 100: Access to the Dragon Armorer, that allow the creation of any dragon armor in Eberron (yup, a downgrade since those are accessible for free now). Reward choice of: Portable Hole, any Siberys Dragonshard, 2 Blood of Dragons, 10 Velah Cookies, 10 Stormreaver Cookie
    • 200: You get the Feat Draconic Vitality, that gives you +10 HP
    • 300: The Dragon Armorer got upgraded with Epic Recipes from other worlds (Cormyrean Red/Green and Shadow)


    Argonnessen is the continent of dragons. Mostly, the rewards remain untouched, but I think unifying the dragon armors in a single location is a huge benefit.

    The Silver Flame: (Current max is 567)

    • 100: Access to the Silver Flame Vendor, that have: Lesser Silver Flame Potions (50 HP base healing), Silver Flame Arrows/Bolts (1d6 holy damage, made of silver), and Prototype Silver Flame Potions (150 HP base healing, -10 stats/saves debuff as now). Also offer Mark of the Silver Flame for Crafting (only BtA item on list)
    • 200: You get the Feat Blessing of the Silver Flame, that doubles the effectiveness of tavern food and drink, and halves the duration of Death penalty.
    • 300: Vendor get access to Blessed Silver Flame Arrow/Bolts (3d4 holy damage, made of silver and cold iron alloy, ML 11), Shards of Light, Silver Flame potions (150 HP base healing, ML 11), and Prototype Greater Silver Flame potions (300 HP base healing, -10 stats/saves, ML 11)
    • 400: You get the feat Blessing of the Silver Flame a second time, triples the effectiveness of tavern food and drink, and cut the duration of Death Penalty to one third.
    • 500: Vendor get access to Consecrated Silver Flame Arrows/Bolts (5d4 holy damage, silver/byeshk/cold iron alloy, Vorpal effect against evil mobs, ML 21), Greater Silver Flame Potions (300 HP base healing, ML 21), and Prototype Major Silver Flame Potions (500 HP base healing, -10 stats/save, ML 21). Also a reward choice between: Unique armor skin (BtC, Silver Flame based), unique shield skin (also BtC, silver flame based), 30 Elixir of Superior Healing, 10 Crimson Nightshade Infusion, or 5000 Guild Renown


    Silver Flame is the agent that fights evil in Eberron. Since by tradition it also handles out healing, I kept the theme, and improved the vendor arsenal, that will be accessible earlier, although with a reduced inventory. And if someone notices, the intention is for the previous "prototype" potion to disappear from the inventory once the "finished" potion is available. The arrows are supposed to also be 50% returning.

    The Twelve: (Current max is 405)

    • 100: Access to the Twelve vendor, that sells BtC Large bags (collectible, ingredients, gem, soul gems) and Omnispell Dust
    • 200: You get the Feat Honorary Member of the Twelve, that gives you a +1 bonus to Concentration, Spellcraft, and Perform.
    • 300: Vendor gain access to Omnispell Stone and Minor/Lesser/(untyped) Mnemonic potions.
    • 400: You get the feat Honorary Member of the Twelve a second time.


    The Twelve is an arcane study zone. Make sense for me to give them bonus to casting, and access to items that empower casters. The bags on vendor is to counterbalance the loss of the free large ingredients bags every 150 favor.

    House Cannith: (Current max is 248)

    • 100: Access to Cannith Vendor, with 10% Crafting Success Boosters, Cannith Reconstruct Elixir (150 Base repair), Prototype Greater Cannith Reconstruct Elixir (300 base repair, -50% attack/casting speed), and Mark of House Cannith for crafting (only BtA item on the list)
    • 200: You get the Feat Cannith Tinkerer, that gives you a +1 bonus to Disable Device, Open Lock, Repair, and Use Magic Device.


    Cannith is the house that created the warforged. Makes sense for them to give some major potions to them. The skill bonus to UMD is unique, and can not be achieved (currently) without doing some challenges.

    House Deneith: (Current max is 318)

    • 100: Access to Deneith Vendor (same as today T2)
    • 200: You get the Feat Deneith Defender, that gives you a +1 bonus to AC and saves, and a +3 bonus to PRR/MRR.
    • 300: Deneith Vendor get access to 100% +3 returning arrows/bolts/throwers and 50% returning +5 arrows/bolts/throwers. Also get access to (non-returning) Metalline Arrows. All ML 11.


    Deneith is a weapon-based house, and thus, the favor feat focus on defenses. Giving 100% buy-able returnersis mostly convenience, since returning throwers are the only ones used, and most bow/xbow users have technical unlimited mundane ammo anyway.

    House Jorasco: (Current max is 282)

    • 100: Access to Jorasco vendor with some unique potions, all CL 10, ML 1: Panacea (cure all stats), Restoration (all ability damage and one negative level), Jorasco Stew (Shield of Faith, Aid, Protection from Evil, and Remove Fear), and Prototype Greater Jorasco Stew (Divine Favor, Divine Power, -100 Healing Amplification)
    • 200: You get the Feat Jorasco's Glory, that gives you a +10 bonus to Healing Amplification, Repair Amplification and Negative Energy Amplification. Also gives a +1 bonus to the Heal skill.


    Jorasco is based on divine buffing. Since healing is part of Silver Flame, Jorasco took care of buffing. Panaces save you inventory space from all remove debuff potions, Jorasco Stew are some convenient buffs, and Major Jorasco Stew will work kinda like Silver Flame pots: The intention is for future tiers to remove the "prototype" and the penalties, while giving access to a higher level potion with the same crippling drawbacks (True Seeing, FoM and/or DW, maybe?)

    House Kundarak: (Current max is 342)

    • 100: Acces to a Kundarak Vendor, with some defensive buffs potions. All CL 10, ML 1: Improved Resist Energy (All 5 in one potion), Prototype Ward Potion (Shield, Stoneskin, Barkskin, double spell cooldown and -50% movement speed)
    • 200: You get the Feat Kundarak Resilience, that gives you a +5 bonus to energy resistance
    • 300: Kundarak vendor potions are upgraded to CL 20, ML 11. Add Ward Potion (Shield, Stoneskin, Spiderskin) and Prototype Greater Ward Potion (Radiant Forcefield, double spell cooldown and -50% movement speed)


    Kundarak is a banking house, and thus, are focused on defensive measures, so the focus on defensive potions came to my mind. Because dwarves are sturdy, and the house focus in defending a single place, the movement penalty don't usually interferes with the house business (but might give trouble to adventurers).

    House Phiarlan: (Current max is 375)

    • 100: Access to Phiarlan Vendor, with some unique arcane spell buffs. All CL 10, ML 1: Blur Potion, Phiarlan Acrobatic Help (Jump, Tumble, Merfolk's Blessing, Heroism), Prototype Phiarlan Illusion (Gives you Displacement, for the same time you are treated as if in a cloud, 20% miss chance)
    • 200: You get the Feat Phiarlan Time Manipulation, that gives you a +10% bonus to movement speed while in public areas (stacks with VIP bonus and common striding/speed gear), and a +1 bonus to Balance, Jump, Swim and Tumble.
    • 300: Phiarlan vendor potions are upgraded to CL 20, ML 11. Phiarlain Illusion Potion (Displacement, ML 11), Prototype Greater Phiarlan Illusion Potion (Displacement, Ghostly - 20% incorporeal, 20% miss chance for you, ML 11), Phiarlan Greater Heroism Potion (Don't grant Fear Immunity, ML 11), Improved Invisibility Potion (15 seconds, don't dispel while using levers and such, ML 11)


    Phiarlan is a illusionist house. They also present themselves as a entertainment house. Those potions made more sense than the current buff list. I know what most people think about displacement potions, but they would be the same ML as green steel accessories, thus being mostly another way to do what people already do.

    The Yugoloth: (Current max is 111)

    • 100: Access to Yugoloth vendor (like today)


    List is good, no reason to change. Slight nerf because favor got up from 75 to 100 to standardize all favors.

    Purple Dragon Knights: (Current max is 639)

    • 100: Access to the PDK Vendor that allow you to upgrade any Demonweb armor to be part of any Eveningstar set, and the first two upgrades of CitW weapons.
    • 200: You get the Feat Honorary Purple Dragon Knight, that gives you a +1 Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power. In addition, you can click on the feat to teleport to Eveningstar (mimics the Key function).
    • 300: PDK Vendor allow you to craft Cormyrean dragon armor, and the third upgrade to citw weapons.
    • 400: You get the feat Honorary Purple Dragon Knight a second time.
    • 500: PDK Vendor get access to the fourth upgrade to citw weapons. Also, you can choose a reward from the list: Unique armor cosmetic (BtC, PDK-inspired), Unique helmet cosmetic (BtC, PDK-inspired), Spotted Wolf Cosmetic Pet, 5 Commendations of Heroism, 30 standard commendations (druid, villagers, etc), or 5000 Guild Renown
    • 600: You get the feat Honorary Purple Dragon Knight a third time.


    While you can get PDK favor at heroic levels, it is high heroics. So, PDK is basically epic-only favor. "Key" becomes a feat with some passive benefits (since Turbine probably is locked by contract to not allow just add eveningstar to the teleport list). PDK upgrades got split up, and for most of them, they can be upgraded earlier. 30 comms equivale to 30 potions if you want to make the trade-ins. CoH in the list is to help with the nerf of the 4th upgrade going into the 500 favor range.

    The Harpers: (Current max is 312)

    • 100: The Harpers will use their influence to give you discounted prices in Forgotten Realms vendors (Eveningstar, Wheloon, Thunder Peaks)
    • 200: You get the Feat Harper's Pin, that gives you the ability to click on it to remove any crowd control effects acting upon yourself (10 minutes cooldown, do NOT share a cooldown with Harper Agent capstone)
    • 300: Reward list, choose one: unique armor skin (BtC, Harper-based), Unique buckler skin (Harper-based), 30 standard commendations (pdk, cleric, etc), 30 scrolls of Dimension Door (BtC), or 5000 Renown


    There are two FR patrons. Harper made more sense to be the one with influence over the vendors (and people are used to PDK for gear upgrades). Usually I would put the unique skins at the 500 favor tier, but Harper had a Enhancement Tree unlock around that tier that got moved to total favor, so I moved cosmetics up. I know they are not equivalent.

    =====================================

    What everyone think?
    Last edited by nibel; 01-17-2015 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Minor spelling errors
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
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    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #2
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    Only skimmed it but so far I dig the skill bonuses at higher levels instead of some once per life thing or once ever. Incentives to stay at cap are needed and some +skills, other passive bonuses and better consumables/buff help a little in that regard so nice work.

    As for the inventory/bank slots most TRs they're the only thing I need to back farm and it gets annoying, so glad that's gone.

  3. #3
    Community Member Anric's Avatar
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    I like it a lot. Not overpowering, so one does not have to worry about it giving out more power creep. Definitely some nice stuff with the potions, and drawbacks to go to using them. I am sure people will comment about how they shouldn't be any drawbacks. Might I suggest thinking of additions to Yugo Favor, the recent news of epic shav and it being new content, would suggest more favor for that area.
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    Thats some very good work. /signed.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Dmister's Avatar
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    Not just stating a problem but also giving a great solution...love it!

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  6. #6
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anric View Post
    Might I suggest thinking of additions to Yugo Favor, the recent news of epic shav and it being new content, would suggest more favor for that area.
    The proposal is for the 200 favor always provide a feat with very minor bonus or a long-cooldown clickie. I accept suggestions.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  7. #7
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    /signed

    Really good idea and well thought out. Most of the time with lists like these people start asking for to much and Turbine will obviously just ignore but this is a well thought out list that isn't overpowering and encourages favor gain.

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  8. #8
    Community Member LittleLexi's Avatar
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    Sorry, but no thank you. I firmly believe that making things like Drow, Vet Status, FvS, Artificer(Which is already close to impossible to unlock!) more difficult to unlock via favor, will be a huge deterrent to newer players and F2P/Premium players. It may not seem like a massive amount of favor to you OP - but believe me, it's hard enough for many people to even hit 1500 total favor.

    I like some of the other suggestions(though I'm fine with Coin Lords/House K offering more storage - it makes sense), but again, you're suggested tiers' milestones require far too much favor. For example: having to hit 300 Free Agent Favor just to be able to buy +3 and +4 tools when we can currently get +5 tools with 150 favor, is just going to tick most people off, and leave new, aspiring, rogues - who already get lambasted enough for every failed search check, or blown box - with a feeling of despair at likely never achieving many of these unlockables.

    So overall - while I'm in favor(no pun intended) of even more favor rewards and updating game mechanics - I'm sure these suggestions, as you have put them forth, will only further segregate the community and impact the number of new players coming in - as well as how many are likely to stay - in a negative manner. Therefore, I would much prefer the system remains as it is, if that is the alternative.

  9. #9
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    Don't like raising the point for drow to 750 sucks for new players and I absolutely hate the changes to coin lord and don't think bank space or inventory space gaining should be changed PEROID!


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  10. #10
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    A few interesting ideas, but as a whole i would not like this.

    You have made many actually desirable things much harder to get, and substituted in a lot of things at lower levels that i personally would have no interest in.

    Skill tomes? I've seen this mentioned as possible rewards for champion fragments as well. They are the only really tangible reward from all the sagas. No point in having any other sources for them.

    I have no problem with coin lords and house k giving storage space. It motivates a lot of players to play those quests. It sets a goal for newer players. Goals are good.

    The yugo pot one is a terrible change. It would require that you run a dead raid. No thanks. Granted, this may change if they end up releasing another pack in Shavarath, assuming that will be Yugoloth favor.

    I don't see the importance of forcing all the favor tiers into uniform numbers. There aren't uniform amounts of favor available.

    I would be happy if they just put in some of the missing high tier favor rewards.

  11. #11
    Community Member Anric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Don't like raising the point for drow to 750 sucks for new players and I absolutely hate the changes to coin lord and don't think bank space or inventory space gaining should be changed PEROID!
    Storage is the one that makes sense to do. Won't require too much to change, as the mechanic is in place already with bought storage to let it carry over after a tr. Once a character has it, it has it for good. If anything, maybe just 1 slot. The other has to be earned. After all there is sales to be considered here. Why is raising the amount needed for drow a bad thing? Looking at it from a sales point of view, might give a very slight increase in purchase.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Anric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    A few interesting ideas, but as a whole i would not like this.

    You have made many actually desirable things much harder to get, and substituted in a lot of things at lower levels that i personally would have no interest in.

    Skill tomes? I've seen this mentioned as possible rewards for champion fragments as well. They are the only really tangible reward from all the sagas. No point in having any other sources for them.

    I have no problem with coin lords and house k giving storage space. It motivates a lot of players to play those quests. It sets a goal for newer players. Goals are good.

    The yugo pot one is a terrible change. It would require that you run a dead raid. No thanks. Granted, this may change if they end up releasing another pack in Shavarath, assuming that will be Yugoloth favor.

    I don't see the importance of forcing all the favor tiers into uniform numbers. There aren't uniform amounts of favor available.

    I would be happy if they just put in some of the missing high tier favor rewards.
    More ways to get skill tomes, not a bad thing actually. Who takes skill tomes from sagas? People will still be motivated to run all those quests anyway, Total Favor wise would be the reason.

    Yugo is too easy to get for the power it gives..power that combined with everything can be stacked with it, mind you. 100 seems even too low, but without more quests added, 100 would do.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anric View Post
    Storage is the one that makes sense to do. Won't require too much to change, as the mechanic is in place already with bought storage to let it carry over after a tr. Once a character has it, it has it for good. If anything, maybe just 1 slot. The other has to be earned. After all there is sales to be considered here. Why is raising the amount needed for drow a bad thing? Looking at it from a sales point of view, might give a very slight increase in purchase.
    Nobody with a single active brain cell should buy drow and 400 is a good level to earn them the only favor point that really should be changed is the 1750 +2 tome as that is pretty worthless now


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Nobody with a single active brain cell should buy drow and 400 is a good level to earn them the only favor point that really should be changed is the 1750 +2 tome as that is pretty worthless now
    Cannith crafting is apparently getting revamped, so they might not be useless after that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    Cannith crafting is apparently getting revamped, so they might not be useless after that.
    only to people who find crafting attractive I cant stand any crafting myself and wont do it.


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  16. #16
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    too much nerfs
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  17. #17
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Mostly good ideas!

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    *snip*
    I really like the standardization and consistency of the list, something that DDO is sorely missing since they seem to change their producers, devs and game plan more frequently than I change water filters. It has annoyed me no end that the favor rank Honorary member of the Twelve has existed and been achievable for sometime and does NOTHING. I brought it up with the Heart of Madness pack because we can now go well beyond that favor mark still with nothing to show for it.
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