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  1. #1
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Default Merging Favored Enemy's list

    Currently, following their PnP source, Rangers can get up to 5 Favored Enemies at level 20, and you can choose any monster type, from a list composed of over 20 choices. It is well-known that many items on this list are under-represented in monster population (Plants), while others are almost universal (Undead). The major problem is that in heroic content, FE damage is supposed to be a major feature for rangers, giving up to +13 damage against their favored enemies (+17 if you get DWS T5 and Primal Avatar), but the list is so vast that you end up doing the same list as everyone else (Undead, Giant, Evil Outsider), and complement the blank spaces with your current farming objectives (Dragon, Elf, Human, etc), or crit-immune mobs for the extra damage (Elemental, Construct), and thus, over half the list is never even considered upon. I mean, when was the last time someone picked FE: Halfling or Ooze?

    My proposition is to merge some categories and making them more accessible to all levels content (eg, you don't need FE: Dragon until you start running at least Tor). I was thinking on the following categories:

    Untouched: Undead, Giant, Monstrous Humanoid, Construct, Aberration. Those already encompass a good amount of mob variety and frequency.

    Elemental: Mephits get added to this list, since currently no FE encompass them. Otherwise, untouched.
    Outsiders: Not alignment-based. You can damage devils, tieflings and archons with the same efficiency.
    Player Races: Merge together Human, Elf, Halfling, and Dwarf. Warforgeds are on Construct, while half-orcs are considered orcs.
    Savage Species: Merge together Goblinoid, Orc, Fey and Gnoll.
    Reptilian Creatures: Merge together Reptilian (Kobolds, Troglodytes, Lizardfolk) and Dragon.
    Natural Beasts: Merge together Plant, Ooze, Animal, Vermin, and Magical Beast

    This would reduce the list to 11 options, which you get to choose half of them (5 choices, plus choice of going DWS T5 or not). And while the big 3 might still be tempting, given the sheer numbers of mobs the merged categories, you might consider them.

    Feedback?
    Last edited by nibel; 01-15-2015 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Forgot Plant/ooze on Natural
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #2

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    Don’t forget that they can get more via enhancements/epic destinies. (ex. Deepwood Stalker and Primal Avatar.) Though it would probably be easiest to have it fall along the weapon bane lines.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Setting Unarmed Strike back to what it was and attacking the real problem: Reinforced Fists items.
    • Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for Bear and Wolf wildshapes!
    • Redo the Favor rewards so there is a reason to do max favor again.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Keep Lynnabel on task with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.
    • Finishing the enhancement tree passes (including racial PrE’s) before rolling out yet another DDOStore™ Enhancement Tree.

  3. #3
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Even if going with DWS Tier 5, and Primal Avatar, and Harper FE, a pure ranger would still be 8/11. This would leave some significant blanks on the list.

    While if you get current 8/20ish, you still only care about the ones with the largest number of relevant mobs. And usually that falls into Giant, Undead, EO, Elemental, Construct, Aberration, Dragon and Human (or elf).
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  4. #4
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    I was going to disagree by saying that the separation is there for a reason. But this looks fairly reasonable, actually.

    I'd probably go down a middle road and merge them into somewhat narrower groups. For example, merging plant and ooze somewhere is fine, but merging Human and Elf (probably among the most meaningful choices already) is too much. Animal+M.Beast would be OK, but adding even more is overkill (there's a plenty of spiders around to justify a choice of something like Ooze+Vermin).

    Outsider separation actually makes perfect sense. Evil gets you demons and devils, while Chaotic gets you devils and eladrin - your pick.

    "Dragon" may be a small group in terms of occurrence/variety, but is huge in terms of impact/importance, especially considering the current endgame raids.



    To summarize, some tweaks may be justified, but not to the extent of giving every ranger access to over 2/3 of the list. Instead, I'd rather see more creative abilities using FE, or an expanded list of bonuses rather than just blanket TH+dmg/AC+saves (for example, add dodge vs FE, extra melee/ranged power vs FE, vulnerability stacks or something even more crazy and most importantly scalable exponentially).
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  5. #5
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    Monstrous Humanoids should be expanded to include orcs and globinoids as well.

    Think about it, is there really ANY difference between them? All about the same height, same Strength, same style monsters.

    Or we could just make Teh_Troll happy and add "mammal" to the list.

  6. #6
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    I'd probably go down a middle road and merge them into somewhat narrower groups.
    Human and Elf are some reasonable choices right now for 4th or 5th choice, but is in no way closer to the big three. On the other hand, Halfling and Dwarf are awful choices. The only place you might benefit from FE: Dwarf if is you love Ataraxia and Foundation of Discord. There is no quest in the game where halflings are a majority of enemies. Merging the four together put out a theme (player races), and possibly put the category on par of the big three.

    Except for one specific hated quest, and one optional star in a single cannith challenge, which other outsider you actually fight that is not evil? Sure, mephits, but they are neutral, so the other Outsider FE also don't help here. Lawful and Chaotic Outsiders are mostly a trap option. (Maruts, while outsiders, are considered constructs for FE)

    Fusing kobolds and dragons is mostly because one category is very common at low levels and the other is very relevant at upper levels. I mean, after Lordsmarch quests, you only see kobolds again in EtK and Haunted Halls. But at the same time, around level 13 or so you start having the possibility to fight dragons (Mired in Kobolds, Tor, Refuge, Epics).

    Just remember that my personal suggestions were based on the premise to make every option as tempting as the three big ones (Undead, Giant, Evil Outsider), and the main reason those three are on top of everything is mob frequency. I'm sure it wasn't based on endgame bosses, because when MotU was endgame, there was not a sudden jump advocating for FE:Aberration because of Lolth. FE:Elf, however...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    To summarize, some tweaks may be justified, but not to the extent of giving every ranger access to over 2/3 of the list. Instead, I'd rather see more creative abilities using FE, or an expanded list of bonuses rather than just blanket TH+dmg/AC+saves (for example, add dodge vs FE, extra melee/ranged power vs FE, vulnerability stacks or something even more crazy and most importantly scalable exponentially).
    Oh, there is plenty of room to improve the ranger class based on their FE list, and I'm all for it. Eg, they might make a "Hunter's Weapon" level 4 spell with a personal range, that grants greater bane to your weapons against your favored enemies.

    Actually, the devs need to get a copy of the Spell Compendium, and just read the ranger spells. And add a lot of them to the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey-Boy View Post
    Monstrous Humanoids should be expanded to include orcs and globinoids as well.

    Think about it, is there really ANY difference between them? All about the same height, same Strength, same style monsters.
    I thought about merging them on the list, but then I would run out of places to put Fey (Natural is already bloated), and I noticed that there is actually plenty of monstrous humanoid monsters around all levels. I mean, the list is composed of Sahuagins, Gargoyles, Medusas, Hags (except Night Hags), Harpies, Minotaurs, Wildmen, Werewolves, and Yuan-tis. It is broad enough.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  7. #7
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    I always thought it should just align with the Bane lists. When they merged those, they should have merged FE too. It's essentially the same thing conceptually, just with different numbers attached. There's still more than 5 bane types I think, so there's still choices, even if its more about which two or three you don't take rather than which 5 you do. Plus it effectively gives pure rangers a bit of a DPS boost on average which is a bit needed these days compared to almost any ranger splash MC build.
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  8. #8
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    (eg, you don't need FE: Dragon until you start running at least Tor).
    I so want them to make Kobolds take dragon bane/FE damage. I feel bad for the little guys, I want their myths to be true...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  9. #9
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    I so want them to make Kobolds take dragon bane/FE damage. I feel bad for the little guys, I want their myths to be true...
    Me too.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

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