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  1. #1
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Default Dispel Magic & Friends

    Back in the original PnP D&D 3.5, Dispel Magic is separated into three spells, that were not game-translated when converted to DDO: 3rd level Dispel Magic (caps at CL 10), 6th level Greater Dispel Magic (caps at 20), and Mordenkainen's Disjunction (no cap).

    However, back in PnP most mobs DO NOT have caster level equal their CR. An ogre with mage levels have a very low CL. Even player classes as paladins and rangers only have caster level equal to half their class levels. And that is not counting the prestige classes that do not improve casting at all.

    In DDO, however, every casting class level gives you +1 caster level. Every mob able to cast spells have caster level equal their CR. When faced with the fact that hard and elite mobs (and normal bosses) have caster levels above your own level, you notice that the Dispel Magic mechanic ends with you having no chance to dispel any effect the mobs cast. Add to this the second fact that the devs decided to buff monster directly on their bare stats instead of many layers of buffs that, if not being able to be removed, at least suppressed for a time. This lead to Dispel Magic being pretty much useless in DDO.

    They tried to give us a reason to carry Dispel by making it de-level Spell Wards, but it only appear in Forgotten Realms content, that is all level 16+, requiring you about a dozen casts to remove a single spell ward. And since you usually do not backtrack on those quests, and you have to face-find the spellwards if you don't have trap skills, it is usually more efficient to just run through them. Again, Dispel stay useless.

    And to add insult to the injury, with U19's enhancement pass, they gave Arcane Archers the possibility to instantly dispel up to three effects from any mobs a Dispelling Arrow hit, regardless of buff level. So, let me clear this point: A 3rd level ranger (that i PnP only have half their levels in caster level) is a better dispeller than a 30th level full-caster.

    I propose the devs to change the way Dispel Magic and its enhanced versions works to the following:

    Dispel Magic: Dispel a single effect on the target. This might dispel anything, beneficial or not, but only one effect (randomly chosen). When used against a Spell Ward, it have 1% chance per caster level to immediately destroy it. If that chance fail, the spell ward loses 1d4 levels.

    Greater Dispel Magic: Dispel all magic effects on the target. This includes any magic effect, beneficial or not. When used against a Spell Ward, it have 5% chance per caster level to immediately destroy it. If that chance fail, the spell ward loses 2d4 levels.

    Mordenkainen's Disjunction: Dispel all beneficial magic effects on the target. This do not remove any effects that is prejudicial to the opponent. The target also have to make a Will save, or be unable to cast for 20 seconds (Red-named immune to this secondary effect). When used against a Spell Ward, it immediately destroy it.

    Break Enchantment is not altered by this proposition because it already have its uses to clear out area spells like clouds and blade barrier.

    For reference, Dispel Magic scrolls/wands have CL 5 (5% chance to destroy wards), and Greater Dispel scrolls have CL 11 (55% to destroy wards). Since both spells will also remove prejudicial effects from target (ie, dots, CC, charms...), it will not be overpowered to have scroll stashes of them, but will be an option on some fights.

    Dispel Magic only removing one effect will also help against the few mobs that love to spam this spell. Sure, it will remove one of your buffs anyway, but will not clear ALL of them, like they currently do. You can also make strategic use of lower buffs (just to raise the sheer number of buffs you possess) to prevent dispelling of essential buffs.

    Disjunction being the selective effect also gives us another level 9 good option, since it will also combine some strategic uses when we can nullifies an annoying caster for a while.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #2
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Bravo! Devs take a look at this please.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I like the idea, but I think you go a bit too far. Having easily UMD-able scrolls with a 100% chance to dispel buffs and a 55% chance to destroy traps seems a bit much. I'd change the % chance on dispel to 2% and greater dispel to 3% per caster level (10% on dispel scroll, 33% on greater dispel scroll), and have both dispel and greater dispel do their current live dispel check. If that dispel check fails, then there's the same 2/3% chance per caster level to dispel. Alternatively, just have the % chance per level to dispel and ignore the pnp dispel check mechanic (though that would make them less useful at lower levels). Mordenkainen is probably fine the way you have it, but if you want it to be like the others, you can give it a 5% chance per caster level. That would give it an 85% success rate at level 17, and 100% at 20.
    Last edited by peng; 12-14-2014 at 10:34 AM. Reason: changed dispel %

  4. #4
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by peng View Post
    I like the idea, but I think you go a bit too far. Having easily UMD-able scrolls with a 100% chance to dispel buffs and a 55% chance to destroy traps seems a bit much.
    Remember that Greater Dispel would remove any debuff/dot you would had placed on the mob as well.

    About the spell wards, remember that if you are not a trapper, your usual way to *find* them is to actually activate them and take damage at least once. Since they raised the speed of the search/disable animation in U19, if you have a trapper in your party, you will wait for her to disarm the wards. The dispel magic is basically a workaround, like Knock: Scrolls are not 100%, casting from SP leaves you with less SP for other things, and Disjunction have a long casting time.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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