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  1. #1
    Community Member Gnarkh's Avatar
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    Default Centered Kensai Trapper (12 Fighter / 6 monk / 2 rogue)

    This build is a custom made one for a friend and will be used for TRing together.

    It's obviously a modified Cetus build and many thanks for inspiring it.

    Find the original build here:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...forged-Fighter

    This build has a couple of hard prerequisites, please take these as a given. I'm aware those aren't the best min-max choices.

    - Dwarf ('cause we'll run with three dwarfs…), no iconic race, 3rd life
    - +4 shop tome (lucky him)
    - fun to level with decent trapping skills
    - the toon will probably TR again rather sooner than later
    - yields a fighter past live
    - make use of some existing gear like bows, axes and dragon scale robes
    - emphasis on melee
    - self healing with UMD

    I'd personally describe the build as a 'modern bat man with dwarf flavor'. It might be adaptable to players with less build point and tome resources, but it will suffer a lot (In a nutshell, you'd have to lower strength and constitution which really hurts the build imho).

    Feel free to discuss or use it as a template, however please don't make the thread a discussion, whether this build is optimized for endgame. It's not .

    Please by all means point out mistakes, especially in the level and feat order as I made this on a napkin in 30 minutes basically. However, if there is interest in this build, I'll gladly keep the post updated and add any fantastic ideas to optimize it.

    The Batmonkey
    12 Fighter / 6 Monk / 2 Rogue
    Dwarf, Lawful Neutral

    Starting Stats 36 pts. (with +4 tomes)

    Str 18 (22), all level ups -> prereq for Overwhelming Crit
    Con 17 (21)
    Dex 13 (17) -> prereq for manyshot
    Int 14 (18)
    Wis 9 (13) -> prereq for zen archery
    Cha 6 (10)


    Leveling path (must be precise to not mess up trapping skills and feats)

    Level 1 Rogue(1)
    40 Skillpoints -> 4 each in Disable, Search, UMD, Balance, Jump, Spot, Open Lock, 3 Concentration, 2 Tumble
    Stunning Blow

    Level 2 Monk(1)
    6 SP -> 2 Concentration, 0.5 UMD, 0.5 Disable, 0.5 Search, 0.5 Balance
    Power Attack

    Level 3 Fighter(1)
    4 SP -> 0.5 Disable, 1 Search, 0.5 UMD
    Cleave
    Weapon focus: Slashing

    Level 4 Monk(2)
    6 SP -> 3 Concentration, 2 Balance, 0.5 UMD
    Two Handed Fighting

    Level 5 Fighter(2)
    4 SP -> 1 Disable, 0.5 Search, 0.5 UMD
    Point Blank Shot

    Level 6 Fighter(3)
    4 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search
    Greater Cleave

    Level 7 Fighter(4)
    5 SP -> 1 Disable, 1.5 Search
    Weapon Specialization: Slashing

    Level 8 Monk(3)
    7 SP -> 1 Disable, 1.5 Search , 1 UMD
    Monk: Light Path

    Level 9 Fighter(5)
    5 SP -> 1.5 Disable, 1 Search
    Improved Two Handed Fighting

    Level 10 Fighter(6)
    5 SP -> 1.5 Disable, 1 Search
    Improved Critical: Slashing

    Level 11 Fighter(7)
    5 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 0.5 UMD

    Level 12 Fighter(8)
    5 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 0.5 UMD
    Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
    Greater Two Handed Fighting

    Level 13 Monk(4)
    7 SP -> 3 Concentration, 1 Disable, 1 Search

    Level 14 Monk(5)
    7 SP -> 3 Concentration, 1 Disable, 1 Search

    Level 15 Monk(6)
    8 SP -> 2 Concentration, 1 Disable, 1 Search, 1.5 UMD
    Zen Archery
    Improved Critical: Ranged

    Level 16 Rogue(2)
    12 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 10 UMD

    Level 17 Fighter(9)
    6 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 1 UMD

    Level 18 Fighter(10)
    6 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 1 UMD
    Bow Strength
    Rapid Shot

    Level 19 Fighter(11)
    6 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 1 UMD

    Level 20 Fighter(12)
    6 SP -> 1 Disable, 1 Search, 1 UMD
    Manyshot

    Level 21
    Overwhelming Critical

    Level 24
    Master Of Forms

    Level 26
    Perfect Two handed fighting

    Level 27
    Blinding Speed

    Level 28
    Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

    Enhancements (priority top to bottom)

    Very important:
    - One with the Blade to center axes (Kensai)
    - Keen Edge and Deadly Strike (Kensai)

    Quite important:
    - Tactics for Stunning Blow and Trip (Kensai and Dwarf, I believe they stack)
    - STR Enhancements
    - Surge (4th Kensai Core)
    - Shadow Veil (Ninja Spy)
    - Dwarven Core for HP and Con
    - Dwarven Axe Line

    Great to have and fillers:
    - Animal Form: Monkey from Monk Henshin
    - If failing traps while leveling (not sure about DCs at the moment), gradually add 3xAwareness 2xMechanics and Skill Boost from Rogue Mechanic until you find and no fail disable again. Don't waste more AP here than you have to.
    - boost dodge: Acrobatic / Agility (Ninja Spy)
    - boost saves: Conditioning (Shintao or Kensai), Contemplation (Henshin or Kensai), Agility (Ninja Spy or Kensai). Take only once each, they don't stack
    - Sneak Attack, low priority as you'll usually grab lots of aggro (Ninja Spy and Assassin)
    - No mercy (Ninja Spy)
    - spare points (if any): Dwarven Runes, Iron Skin (Shintao)

    As you see, I haven't mapped out enhancements and there will be more you want than you have room for. As the build will have strong DPS, during leveling I'd personally first improve saves after taking care of my basic Kensai needs (One with the Blade, Keen Edge, Deadly Strike).

    If anyone wants to break those down or isn't in experimental mood, feel free to mention it and I'll add it to the build.
    Last edited by Gnarkh; 03-16-2014 at 02:52 PM.
    "Don't mess with dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup."
    Proud citizen of Khyber, Dabbler in the arcane art of creating flavor dwarf builds:
    The Stonehenge (Efficient Druid Survival Caster), The Starman (Ranged Coup De Grace Assassin)

  2. #2
    Community Member Gnarkh's Avatar
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    reserved
    "Don't mess with dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup."
    Proud citizen of Khyber, Dabbler in the arcane art of creating flavor dwarf builds:
    The Stonehenge (Efficient Druid Survival Caster), The Starman (Ranged Coup De Grace Assassin)

  3. #3
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    What about 1 Rog/ 7 Mnk/ 12 Ftr? Personally I hate redundancy, so if I had to mix Rog and Mnk I'd try keeping Evasion on just one of the 2 classes.

    In any way, the 12 Ftr levels hit hard regarding skill points, and with my split up, the leveling progress itself has got an impact. I think I'd take 1 Rog/ 1 Ftr (weapon/armor proficiency, who cares about being centered in low level, when Carnifex + Power Attack does the job till lvl. 12 )/ 2 Mnk/ (at least 5 Ftr) 11 Ftr/ 5 Mnk. Evasion asap, then Surge, then Mnk for filling up skills. Since Mnk levels are split up you might take defensive Mnk feats and anything else like Power Attack with Ftr bonus feats.
    Characters on Orien:
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  4. #4
    Community Member Gnarkh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    What about 1 Rog/ 7 Mnk/ 12 Ftr? Personally I hate redundancy, so if I had to mix Rog and Mnk I'd try keeping Evasion on just one of the 2 classes.

    In any way, the 12 Ftr levels hit hard regarding skill points, and with my split up, the leveling progress itself has got an impact. I think I'd take 1 Rog/ 1 Ftr (weapon/armor proficiency, who cares about being centered in low level, when Carnifex + Power Attack does the job till lvl. 12 )/ 2 Mnk/ (at least 5 Ftr) 11 Ftr/ 5 Mnk. Evasion asap, then Surge, then Mnk for filling up skills. Since Mnk levels are split up you might take defensive Mnk feats and anything else like Power Attack with Ftr bonus feats.
    I'd love to skip a second rogue level. It was the only way to add enough skillpoints to fit in full UMD I could figure out, though.

    Thanks a lot for the suggestions for the leveling order. There are a couple constraints, however:

    (I'm painfully aware of this, as my friend, who's just leveling this build shouts every level up something like 'nah, can't take feat yet!' and then I try to fix it 'remotely', then update the thread. ).

    - The feats taken at monk levels are mandatory (THF, PA, Zen Wizardry) as they are prereq for stuff to take at the next fighter levels. So I need to take monk at level 2, so I can take a (helpful) feat at fighter at 3.

    - If I take defensive feats instead on any monk level, later on I'll either not be able to fit in (a) full THF line or (b) Manyshot.

    - However, I'd still love to fit Dodge somewhere (for enhancement prereqs), so one option would be to replace GTHF. This would give a lot more leeway to shove classes around.

    If you can break it down a little more detailed with feats included, I'll be happy to make changes, that work a little smoother during level ups?

    When to take monk 3-6 is a lot more flexible indeed. My reasoning was: Monk 3 early for runspeed. And fighter 8 early to unlock all prereq feats and be able to center.

    From there on it's a wash I think to go more monk (center with bows, better forms, runspeed) or fighter (better ranged, power surge). I haven't checked this part of the level progression for constraints yet, however. Handle advice with care.
    Last edited by Gnarkh; 03-10-2014 at 09:14 AM.
    "Don't mess with dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup."
    Proud citizen of Khyber, Dabbler in the arcane art of creating flavor dwarf builds:
    The Stonehenge (Efficient Druid Survival Caster), The Starman (Ranged Coup De Grace Assassin)

  5. #5
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Yeah it was a mere brainstorming regarding leveling order, the Mnk feats fix it to what you need to take. I had 5 lvl. of Ftr in mind because of the generic 5 lvl. prereq. of Tier 5 enhancements, but it is 8 lvl.s actually, so nvm.

    Of course you need to fullfill the prereq.s first, which shifts certain things in the front or back. Regarding Mnk levels you aim for 6th level, because of Shadow Fdae, a nice defense on heroic but far more important after lvl. 20, so the feats of 6 Mnk are highest priority. I'd focus totally on melee combat till lvl. 20 and ranged combat after lvl. 20, but that's with Pinion in mind.

    Is UMD really that hard with +8 to skills by reaching lvl. 28 and 30 then? You can slot CHA +7/+8 and another exceptional +1, insightful +2 (or switch in an item such like Intricate Field Optics if you got fast playskills).

    Anyway, I try with 1 Rog:

    FBF = Fighter Bonus Feat
    GF = General Feat
    MAF = Martial Arts Feat

    1 Rog - Power Attack
    2 Ftr - Weapon Focus (melee)
    3 Mnk - Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot
    4 Mnk - THF
    5 Ftr - Rapid Shot
    6 Ftr - Bow STR
    7 Ftr - W. Spec. (melee)
    8 Ftr - /
    9 Ftr - FBF, Manyshot
    10 Ftr - /
    11 Ftr - Improved Critical (melee)
    12 Mnk - Greater W. Focus (melee)
    13 Mnk - /
    14 Mnk - /
    15 Mnk - Adept of Rock, MAF, GF
    16 Ftr - /
    17 Ftr - ITHF
    18 Ftr GTHF, Master of Rock
    19 Ftr Greater W. Spec.
    20 Mnk - /
    21 Epic - Grandmaster of Rock
    22- 28 Epic - Improved Crit. Ranged, Blinding Speed, Improved Crit. (ranged), PTWF for doublestrike, whatever you want.

    1 FBF to decide (Stunning Blow or Precise Shot???), 1 GF (Skill Focus: UMD???), 1 MAF (Dodge??), total 3 feats to shift like you want. I think I kept in mind all prerequisites. Anyway, it is not very flexible till you got all prereq.s. If anything does not fit, arrange feat order accordingly ;P.

    - edit -
    Assuming my feat order is within rules of mechanics you had to wait till lvl. 21 for GMOF, that could be a no-no for your friend, but out of experience I did not notice any particular need for it till lvl. 24 and Stormhorns epic hard to epic elite ( that Mnk enhancement Tier 3 for more PRR when in Earth Stance, don't remember, which tree it was).
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 03-10-2014 at 11:36 AM.
    Characters on Orien:
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  6. #6
    Community Member Gnarkh's Avatar
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    Thanks, that's indeed a very smooth level progression. I'm sort of puzzled, you end up with one feat more. Still searching the mistake in my original progression lol.

    I like many things about your feat order, especially how you fit in manyshot earlier and 8 fighter early.

    - What you're missing is Cleave / Greater Cleave / Overwhelming Crit. Not sure if that's intentional? I'd rather drop the two handed feats line instead.

    - Stunning Blow is probably my first pick for optional feats. And it's useful early on. As this is a strength dwarven build with surge, tactics DCs will be very nice.

    - Greater Weapon Spec is a really nice pick, forgot about that. It's probably what I would grab for the miraculous additional feat. From what I gather it's kinda optional as well.

    - Grandmaster of Forms is one skill, I'd probably drop. The added PRR is very nice, but for the DPS stuff (+1 crit multiplier), master does the trick

    - One mistake. At level 18, you only get one feat (odd fighter level)

    - It kind of doesn't affect the build, if you take 20 monk or 20 rogue. So you keep the option up, until the end. That's nice as well. How much UMD you feel you need, is a matter of taste maybe, as the friend running the build isn't decked out with exceptional stats and/or a nice greensteel for UMD, I still feel maxxing that would be beneficial.

    With the former build idea in mind (cleaves and stunning blow), I'd probably do this now:
    (If this order is better, I'd have to run in through the planner to see if the skill progression is smooth as well. Unfortunately, I'm on a mac client...)

    1 Rog1 Stunning Blow
    2 Ftr1 Weapon Focus
    3 Mnk1 PA, Cleave
    4 Mnk2 THF
    5 Ftr2 Greater Cleave
    6 Ftr3 Point Blank Shot
    7 Ftr4 W. Spec. (melee)
    8 Ftr5
    9 Ftr6 Rapid Shot, Bow Strength
    10 Ftr7
    11 Ftr8 Greater W. Focus (melee)
    12 Mnk3 Improved Critical (melee)
    13 Mnk4
    14 Mnk5
    15 Mnk6 (Adept of Rock), Zen Archery, Manyshot
    16 Ftr9
    17 Ftr10 ITHF
    18 Ftr11 Feat of Choice (GTHF or Dodge)
    19 Ftr12 Master of Rock
    20 Mnk OR Rog
    -------------------------
    21 Overwhelming Crit
    24 Improved Crit: Ranged
    27 Blinding Speed
    26, 28 Perfect THF and TWF
    Last edited by Gnarkh; 03-11-2014 at 09:36 AM.
    "Don't mess with dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup."
    Proud citizen of Khyber, Dabbler in the arcane art of creating flavor dwarf builds:
    The Stonehenge (Efficient Druid Survival Caster), The Starman (Ranged Coup De Grace Assassin)

  7. #7
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    - What you're missing is Cleave / Greater Cleave / Overwhelming Crit. Not sure if that's intentional? I'd rather drop the two handed feats line instead.
    Yes and no^^. I forgot indeed but you mentioned missing the full THf line so I focused more in this. Yeah, well, I'd say Cleave and Great Cleave, Overwhelming Crit. of course. You have a crit. seeker melee build so missing Overhwelming Crit. seems unwise.

    - Greater Weapon Spec is a really nice pick, forgot about that. It's probably what I would grab for the miraculous additional feat. From what I gather it's kinda optional as well.
    I thought it was a prereq. for a Kensai feature, no?? In case you don't need it for anything on Kensai, just drop it and take whatever else fits best. Must have been blind, nvm.

    - It kind of doesn't affect the build, if you take 20 monk or 20 rogue. So you keep the option up, until the end. That's nice as well. How much UMD you feel you need, is a matter of taste maybe, as the friend running the build isn't decked out with exceptional stats and/or a nice greensteel for UMD, I still feel maxxing that would be beneficial.
    I keep the skill points to fill in the gaps, till the end, since at lvl. 20 I start using the good stuff and you min/max the maximum skill bonus better this way. Imagine you made a mistake somewhere around lvl. 13 and did not have at least 4+INT skill points. Not to mention that the +4 Tome kicks in very late so you have best use of high skill point classes at the end, providing maximum number of skill points, imo.

    For what number of UMD is needed is not a matter of taste, it depends on your items of course. Epic levels are flat out +1 to UMD. +39 UMD is mandatory. If you need more than that or if you want +39 at lvl. cap or earlier is the question.

    My Juggernaut was planned with +39 at lvl. cap in mind, for example, but I wanted to stay at cap a bit and test the build etc. If your friend is going to TR as soon as he hits lvl. 20 he might want +39 earlier for maximum utility whileleveling.

    I crafted a greensteel Necklace, Smoke 2 (Blurry, +6 DEX skills, +45 hp) and still use it on my Cetus build. My 2nd greensteel item is the oldschool Stalemate2 Goggles (+150 sp, +6 UMD, +6 WIS).

    - edit -
    Yes, The add. feat at lvl. 18 has to vanish. Then you delete Greater W. Spec. and make something related to Overwhelming Crit. The free ftr bonus feat at lvl. 9 should be Cleave, lvl. 17 should be Great Cleave or so. Then Overhwelming Crit. at lvl. 21+ asoasof. Anyway you still had 1 free FBF, MAF and GF. I'd take Dodge as MAF, Skill Focus UMD as GF and the last FBF was either Precise Shot, Improved Crit. (ranged) or Stunning Blow (SB only if I had the according STR/items to stun ee trash at a reasonable rate, while leveling on a twinked out toon I never needed tactical attacks, mobs died just too fast, free Trip was sufficient enough).
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 03-11-2014 at 11:47 AM.
    Characters on Orien:
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  8. #8
    Community Member Gnarkh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    SB only if I had the according STR/items to stun ee trash at a reasonable rate, while leveling on a twinked out toon I never needed tactical attacks, mobs died just too fast, free Trip was sufficient enough
    Well, Stunning Blow is not only CC, but also a 50% DPS increase (more with Sense Weakness etc...) on both trash and orange bosses. So for me it's quite a no brainer especially on a dwarf build (+3 DC from racial enhancements). EE is of lesser concern to this build, but the extra DC will help there as well. During leveling I also feel, it's a valuable survival toon to stun casters. But I see your point, that a Carnifex works as well here as a tool, lol.

    Concerning the level order and feat choices, please repost a fixed order you like better. Little confused to be honest, what your actual suggestion is now. (2 rogue or not? GM stance? Dodge? Max UMD or not?)

    Optional feats imho (pick two).
    - Dodge (can change level order then)
    - Improved Crit Ranged
    - Stunning Blow

    Everything else is imho essential as a prereq or to maximize melee damage.

    Why Skill Focus: UMD? Maybe as a filler to replace later, but since you talk minmaxxing for EE, I don't see any value in that on a toon that can get max levels.

    Improved Crit: Ranged would be my choice to replace with Dodge. With let's say a Pinion or Sinew that would hurt Manyshot a lot, though. Not sure it's worth it (as I haven't broken down, if this build can dodge cap with gear + enhancements + monk bonus...probably it can't). But it's surely an option.

    One idea I'd like to add, if you favor only one level of 'trapper', artificer might be a wise choice, as you won't dip into enhancements in that case and get a free 'lever puller' as well.

    However, I'm still not seeing the reasoning for not adding another rogue level. Monk 7 adds nothing compelling really. Wholeness of body and a lil BaB, unless I overlook something.

    The extra skillpoints would be more useful imho, even if you minmax UMD differently with gear, I'd rather put more points in concentration to fail less with Heal scrolls.

    Unless you change starting stats and have a +5 Int tome, taking rogue 2 at 16 or 20 won't make a difference. It's why it's taken at that level, to max points but get a workable UMD as early as possible. (As this build is mostly meant to level up a fun fighter past life with the constrains in mind in the OP.)

    Rogue got some nice enhancements as well, although I'm pretty sure the build couldn't fit those in .
    Last edited by Gnarkh; 03-14-2014 at 04:49 PM.
    "Don't mess with dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup."
    Proud citizen of Khyber, Dabbler in the arcane art of creating flavor dwarf builds:
    The Stonehenge (Efficient Druid Survival Caster), The Starman (Ranged Coup De Grace Assassin)

  9. #9
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Why Skill Focus: UMD? Maybe as a filler to replace later, but since you talk minmaxxing for EE, I don't see any value in that on a toon that can get max levels.
    You mentioned you could not get together enough UMD without the 2nd Rog level so that is an alternative to compensate a little of the lost skill points if using just 1 Rog level. You surely can take whatever you want.

    Concerning the level order and feat choices, please repost a fixed order you like better. Little confused to be honest, what your actual suggestion is now. (2 rogue or not? GM stance? Dodge? Max UMD or not?)
    Same order as posted earlier except switching THF line with Cleave/Great Cleave and deleting the wrong feat at lvl. 18. +39 UMD is, what I had in mind, however you reach that number is up to you. But it seems to me that you are quite happy with 2 Rog, so take it .

    But I thought I could fit in Dodge feat without missing the option on IC (ranged). In my previous post you got a free MAF at lvl. 15. That'd be Dodge then.
    Characters on Orien:
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