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  1. #1
    Lead Developer PurpleFooz's Avatar
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    Default Upcoming Quest XP Changes

    Very soon we’ll be opening Lamannia with the newest version of Enhancements. Included in that version of the game code are several new features and changes coming to quest XP in the expansion. We wanted to highlight what’s coming with a very early write up, because the changes that you’ll see on Lamannia are not yet ready for testing, and include a lot of place-holder numbers. Today we wanted to talk about the changes so that you have some insight into what features are coming:

    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.

    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.

    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.

    We are still refining what the final numbers will be for these changes and bonuses, and as we get closer to Expansion launch day we will go into greater detail. The version that will appear on Lamannia is not meant for testing, and is there merely because we have taken an early game build to continue Enhancements review with players. You’re welcome to provide feedback on what you see, but it is not something Lamannia participants should focus on because it is still a work in progress.

    We hope you’ve enjoyed this early look, as we’d like to continue these types of posts to let players peek behind the DM screen a bit more ahead of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    - PurpleFooz

  2. #2
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up Fooz!

    I really appreciate that you took the time to communicate with us. And you even did so in a manner that wasn't "kicking the hornet's nest"! Good Job!

    It's awesome about XP-Ransack. I'm also excited to hear about Sagas. I kind of imagine they're the next evolution of the Campaign System that was introduced last year. It'd be nice to point out to the friends that just madly click through all the dialog that there is an overall story arc From Necro to Shroud, or Gianthold to Reaver's...

    Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.
    That sounds interesting - can you give us more detail? What does that mean? Is a random quest chosen each day to get a "daily bonus"? Or do all quests give this bonus once each day? So if you run Kobold's New Ringleader 5 times in one day you get less XP than if you run it 5 times over 5 days?

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  4. #4

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    This sounds kinda like a mixed bag. Will the amount of total xp stay the same just the curve will be less? Seems like a carrot being dangled after the "new TR" posts. I do like the XP reset no grinding quest can be run more often to get and bank levels.

  5. #5
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    Default Sagas

    I too like the XP penalty changes and Saga idea, assuming character copy gets fixed so I can actually get back to Lam ...

    Question: for the many of us who have already completed all the sagas up to now, will we be able to claim a saga reward right away or would we first have to run all the quests in that saga over again?

  6. #6
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gljosh View Post
    This sounds kinda like a mixed bag. Will the amount of total xp stay the same just the curve will be less? Seems like a carrot being dangled after the "new TR" posts. I do like the XP reset no grinding quest can be run more often to get and bank levels.
    Re-read Glin's post announcing the TR ideas. 4th bullet point in the first list. It's been the intention all along. It's not 'a carrot' like you suspect.

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Sadly I have a bad feeling with this that all levels will now have the anemic xp of house c and amrath now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Sadly I have a bad feeling with this that all levels will now have the anemic xp of house c and amrath now.
    Yeah, three days ago, I expressed the bad feeling I have about what I suspect will happen:

    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    This is pretty much how I feel also. The Devs kept the XP low for the upper Heroics to extend the endgame when the cap was 20. However, they didn't adjust and continue to not adjust the XP for those quests since MOTU came out.

    From what I read in Glin's posts, the Devs aren't thinking about boosting the XP in these quests, but leveling out the XP across the board. If this is the case, I think they are just going to add a new XP problem in Heroics. Let's say they flatten the XP needed for upper heroic levels but bump up the lower and/or mid heroic levels. This will present a new problem in both areas, in my mind. In the lower levels, the XP needed can't be boosted too much, because quest give junk XP. Even though several of the quests from levels give decent XP, the mid-heroic levels have some of the least populated quest selection in the game. If the repeat penalty isn't fixed and the XP needed to get to level 28 increases to any degree, the mid-heroics (GH and Sands) are going to become the new XP problem area if players want to cap.

    I've pointed it out before, but the number of quests from levels 12 to 19 is half the number found from level 1 to 11. Additionally, the current number of quests from 20 to 25 is half that of 12 to 19, yet it's the upper heroic quests that continue to have junk XP.
    I still feel that way from what I read from PurpleFooz. Especially from this portion of his text, which I assume that "move" is a typo of "more":

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.
    Instead of padding up the lower and mid-heroic quest XP, why not just pump up the anemic XP found in the upper heroics? That would solve alot of the TR grind problem without creating new problems eslewhere. It also allows fresh Epic players to grind some decent XP with level 18 and 19 players, instead of the artificial segregation that prevents heroics from entering Epics and an incentive is created for Epic players to continue to play in non-Epics.

    Repeat penalty XP being reset and the daily XP bonus sounds like nice additions.

    I'm a bit worried about the Sagas, but I like the idea in theory. My worry is that players will only get a single option, instead of a series of options for the reward. If we're not given a series of options, I can see where people might be angry that they have gotten another +2 Tome that's useless on that character. I'd like to see an option of maybe the XP bonus and two or three other goodies so they player has a choice. Not having a choice stinks alot of times, look at the Eveningstar Challenges that people don't like getting random awards or the death knell to the Sands token turn in when the barter box removed all choice from players.

    A bit off topic, but not too much... Please look at boosting the XP in all the Monster Manuals except the last one. Also, adding more content like the Monster Manuals helps speed up the grind process, but the release of them is so slow...and the fixes near non-existent.

    So for the most part, I'm happy to see that something is being done about the XP curve. Unfortunately, I think the solution might cause problems elsewhere in the game, namely early and mid-game, if not into the Epics also.

  9. #9
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.


    - PurpleFooz
    Excellent change. Really excellent. I know you guys listen to the DDO community, and this is a prime example.

    I hope this change doesn't also involve the decay at level cap not freezing in place, but since there is no mention of it, I wont make any assumptions.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.
    Awesome. Absolutely awesome. These are changes that have been desired for a very long time, and will be a great addition! I am so glad to hear this!

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.
    hrm. Going to have to wait to see how this actually falls out. But from my reading, it sounds like one quest will be chosen as the 'daily quest', out of the entire pool of quests in DDO? Maybe I am just missing something, but this seems like something that will be largely ignored, unless you just happen to be running that quest anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.
    Wow, this sounds rather neat! Very cool.

    I get that this is more of just something that is tied in to showing off the Enhancements, but I have to say that these changes seem like they will be a really great addition once they get tuned properly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Instead of padding up the lower and mid-heroic quest XP, why not just pump up the anemic XP found in the upper heroics?
    It just got harder to get to level 15. Do you really not understand why they would want to do this? If so, look at what they are trying to sell with the expansion.

  12. #12
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    It just got harder to get to level 15. Do you really not understand why they would want to do this? If so, look at what they are trying to sell with the expansion.
    There's a hell of a lot more XP avaialble 1-15 than 15-20.

    Devils' in the details, please give us the details so we know what we're looking at.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    It just got harder to get to level 15. Do you really not understand why they would want to do this? If so, look at what they are trying to sell with the expansion.
    Oh, I get it alright...and this might go a bit off topic, so forgive me.

    I understand the boosting of XP needed in the lower and mid-heroic levels will be an added incentive for Iconic Heroes and TRing into Iconic Heroes. But if they turn these levels into the new horrific XP grind bump, the Iconic Past Life and Heroic Past Life feats need to be granted in the same TR then. And let's face it, it's probably levels 12 to 14 that will become the new worry spot since there's so few quests in that area of the game and there's not going to be any future additions anytime soon for that part of the game, since levels 15 to 18 are getting some padding with this expansion and the rest of the focus for future updates should be for the lack of endgame quests in the level 24 to 28 area.

    If the expansion offers great XP for all the quests and not just the Epic quests and the XP increase for the existing upper heroic quests, there shouldn't be a reason at all the play with the XP curve(s) at all. But we've seen that the XP offered for Heroics still consists of the pre-MOTU endgame grind mindset, so I doubt the XP for those quests will be good. And yeah, the introduction of Iconic Heroes does appear to be the main reason they want to play with the XP curve and not players outcry of the anemic XP for upper heroic quests.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There's a hell of a lot more XP avaialble 1-15 than 15-20.

    Devils' in the details, please give us the details so we know what we're looking at.
    Yes, the Devil is in the details.

    There's more XP from 1 to 15. But the number of quests found from level 1 to 11 individually is practically double that found in the levels 12 to 19. And what I suspect will be the new trouble area (levels 12 to 14) only has 31 quests (which two are raids), which isn't exactly a diverse number of quests to choose from.

    Yes, you can run quests from lower levels, but depending on how much XP they make us need in the previous levels, we might not have the current cushion of grinding XP from those levels.

    I'm just a bit leery about flattening the XP curve.
    Last edited by oradafu; 06-19-2013 at 10:02 PM. Reason: had a bad number

  15. #15
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Very soon we’ll be opening Lamannia with the newest version of Enhancements. Included in that version of the game code are several new features and changes coming to quest XP in the expansion. We wanted to highlight what’s coming with a very early write up, because the changes that you’ll see on Lamannia are not yet ready for testing, and include a lot of place-holder numbers. Today we wanted to talk about the changes so that you have some insight into what features are coming:

    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.

    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.

    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.

    We are still refining what the final numbers will be for these changes and bonuses, and as we get closer to Expansion launch day we will go into greater detail. The version that will appear on Lamannia is not meant for testing, and is there merely because we have taken an early game build to continue Enhancements review with players. You’re welcome to provide feedback on what you see, but it is not something Lamannia participants should focus on because it is still a work in progress.

    We hope you’ve enjoyed this early look, as we’d like to continue these types of posts to let players peek behind the DM screen a bit more ahead of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    - PurpleFooz
    i like this, but...

    why increase lower level xp? i think its fine the way it is and even the average player can get through those levels without xp/min grinding and without much effort. i do like the 15-20 range getting attention though, but i think there would be a lot less griping about xp grind in those levels if the quests and difficulty were rewarding appropriately. i wouldn't doubt it would be too much work or something to just increase the xp on a quest by quest basis in that level range, so it sounds like adjusting the xp curve required is the next best thing.

    a little curious as to why a daily bonus for quest completion. sounds like another xp boost added to the game and i think its gotten to the point its silly crazy when you see someone link over 100k xp in elite Von 5. not a big deal i suppose.

    overall, i like your post and glad to finally see some attention on TR xp. looks like going down the right path.

  16. #16
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Overall these changes sound quite promising. I'm a bit concerned about the lack of any news about increased Amrath and Cannith xp. It might just be me, but I think that's the first step that should be taken, with across the board curve changes looked at after this. Increasing the xp in those two packs and giving enough incentive to keep a streak going through them solves a good portion of the xp problem and lets you smooth out any remaining rough patches with xp curve changes. There are some older quests in the lower quest ranges that could use a look as well.

    As mentioned, it's a bit scary whenever the quests get looked at for xp. I too am worried that instead of adjusting the poor xp quests upward, they will be looking to adjust the good xp quests downward. I'll keep an open mind until I see the changes in action.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Very happy to read about these upcoming changes!

  18. #18
    Community Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Default Proof that the devs DO listen!

    Decaying EXP repetition penalties is something that the player base has been requesting for a long time. Great to see that the devs are finally implementing decaying xp penalties.

    I like a lot of what I see, but I am a little concerned by their plan to increase the exp needed to level in the lower levels (on the otherhand, there were quite a few quests that I may have ended up skipping on account of Greater tomes and Bravery Bonus Elite streaks coming into play). As such, I'll wait and see before I pass any kind of judgment.


    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Very soon we’ll be opening Lamannia with the newest version of Enhancements. Included in that version of the game code are several new features and changes coming to quest XP in the expansion. We wanted to highlight what’s coming with a very early write up, because the changes that you’ll see on Lamannia are not yet ready for testing, and include a lot of place-holder numbers. Today we wanted to talk about the changes so that you have some insight into what features are coming:

    We’ve previously mentioned in our Reincarnation discussions that we’ll be reworking the XP curve to be less steep for 2nd and 3rd life reincarnations. Those curves will be ameliorated, so that the increase in XP needed to level isn’t such a drastic increase in the 15-20 range, and so that the lower level ranges require move XP to level.

    One of the other changes we are working on for the upcoming Expansion release is a change to the way quest repetition XP penalty works. Currently whenever you repeat the same quest over and over, the XP degrades until the quest permanently gives little to no XP. With the Expansion, we will allow the penalty to reset after a grace period, similar to the way chest loot ransack works.

    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.

    Finally, we will be adding a new way to receive bonus XP: Sagas. New NPCs will be arriving in Eberron and Faerûn who chronicle the deeds of heroes across multiple story archs/adventure packs. By completing all the quests in a given Saga, you can speak with the Saga NPC to claim an extra reward such as a large one-time XP grant, guild XP, or even tomes. The quality of those rewards can also be influenced by running the quests on higher difficulties.

    We are still refining what the final numbers will be for these changes and bonuses, and as we get closer to Expansion launch day we will go into greater detail. The version that will appear on Lamannia is not meant for testing, and is there merely because we have taken an early game build to continue Enhancements review with players. You’re welcome to provide feedback on what you see, but it is not something Lamannia participants should focus on because it is still a work in progress.

    We hope you’ve enjoyed this early look, as we’d like to continue these types of posts to let players peek behind the DM screen a bit more ahead of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    - PurpleFooz
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  19. #19
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    This definitely sound nice; however, I am curious whether the Daily Bonus comes with one's first quest of the day, or with a particular quest.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    This definitely sound nice; however, I am curious whether the Daily Bonus comes with one's first quest of the day, or with a particular quest.
    Oooh, good question! I'd read it as a particular quest, taking it to be an incentive to get players to group more by getting a bunch of LFMs up to run a particular quest for that daily bonus.

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