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  1. #1
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    Default Evasion Paladin for new players (Human 18/2 Paladin/Rogue)

    ------------------

    This build is out of date, designed before the enhancement pass that came with the Shadowfell expansion. The updated version is here.

    ------------------


    This THF melee build isn't focused on offense (dps) or defense (tanking) but rather survivability: self-heals, high saves and evasion. It is my main; he is the alt I always solo new content with first for the joy of not having to worry about hirelings, spell point management, or really anything. I confidently turn blind corners with the knowledge that he'll survive just about anything by himself.

    Completely free to play (though you need adventure packs to get gear, as with any build) and allowing for a 28pt version, this is very new player friendly. Bear in mind, though, that the playstyle is heavily focused on self-healing, so if you don't ever hit your heal button this build isn't for you. On the plus side, there is no gear swapping involved in its primary healing.

    The only tome required is a +1 charisma tome at level 13. At around 10k-15k plat in the auction house, this cost is easily afforded by a level 13 character. More tomes help, of course. Of note is that a +3 charisma tome opens up Divine Might III (recommended but not required) and a +2 intelligence tome adds a skill point as early as level 7. If you have access to the int tome, add more skill points into balance, intimidate or open lock as you prefer.

    Note on Open Lock: Try to find good thieves' tools to help out. Free Agent favor lets you by them from the favor vendor. Four ranks is enough to get 90% of locks in the game provided reasonable gear, meaning Gloves of Escape you can swap in plus some decent tools. 10 ranks is enough to get 99% of locks in the game provided quality gear. This build as written gets you 9 ranks, but feel free to change that if you like. The last 1% of locks may not be a reasonable goal to shoot for on this build.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Evasion Paladin
    Level 25 Lawful Good Human Male
    (18 Paladin / 2 Rogue / 5 Epic) 
    
    Abilities          28pt    32pt    34pt    36pt
    Strength            16      18      18      18
    Dexterity           10       8      10      12
    Constitution        14      14      14      14
    Intelligence        10      10      10      10
    Wisdom               8       8       8       8
    Charisma            15      15      15      15
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 13
    
    Skills              Ranks
    Balance               4
    Bluff                 1
    Concentration        23
    Diplomacy              
    Disable Device       n/a  
    Haggle                4 
    Heal                   
    Hide                   
    Intimidate            4  
    Jump                  4 
    Listen                
    Move Silently         
    Open Lock             9 
    Perform              n/a
    Repair                 
    Search                 
    Spot                  
    Swim                  4 
    Tumble                3 
    Use Magic Device     23  
    
    Feats
     1 : Toughness
     1H: Power Attack
     3 : Force of Personality
     6 : Cleave
     9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
    12 : Empower Healing Spell
    15 : Two Handed Fighting or Great Cleave
    18 : Extend Spell
    21E: Improved Two Handed Fighting or Overwhelming Critical
    24E: Greater Two Handed Fighting or a tactical feat of your choice
    
    Fury of the Wild
    Constitution II
    Tunnel Vision III
    Primal Scream II
    Acute Instincts III
    Gird Against Demons I
    Sense Weakness III
    Overwhelming Force III
    Fury Eternal
    Unbridled Fury Epic Moment
    Twist 1: Endless Lay On Hands or Lay Waste
    Twist 2: Endless Smiting or Momentum Swing
    Twist 3: Brace for Impact
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Swim (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Divine Favor
    Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Resist Energy
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Spell (2): Angelskin
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
    Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
    Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting or Great Cleave 
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Bless
    Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (4): Zeal
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III or Paladin Divine Might III
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Lionheart
    Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning III
    Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting or Overwhelming Critical 
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting or Hamstring or Stunning Blow or Improved Trip or Improved Sunder

    Levels

    Rogue @ 1, six levels of paladin, rogue @ 8, paladin rest of the way

    Essentially, race to Hunter of the Dead I in time for delera's and necro1 with bravery and then take evasion.


    Enhancements

    Hunter of the Dead III
    Human Improved Recovery III
    Paladin Devotion IV
    Extra Lay On Hands III
    Unyielding Sovereignty (prestige prereq)
    Paladin Resistance of Good III

    Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Rogue Haste Boost I
    Human Versatility I
    Divine Sacrifice I
    Divine Might II (or III if you have a +3 cha tome)
    Exalted Smite I
    Extra Smite II (prereq)

    Racial Toughness II
    Paladin Toughness III (or II if you managed divine might III)

    Extra Turning III (prestige prereq)
    Improved Turning III (prestige prereq)

  2. #2
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    Healing Amp
    10% improved recovery I
    10% improved recovery II
    10% improved recovery III
    10% hunter of the dead I
    10% hunter of the dead II
    10% hunter of the dead III
    30% gloves
    20% bracers
    10% ship
    -----
    303%
    15% pally past lifex3
    -----
    349%


    Devotion
    80 enhancements
    120 item (shamanic fetish)
    75 empower healing spell
    -----
    275 = 375%


    Cure Serious Wounds
    31.5 base (3d6+6+15)
    *3.75 spell power
    *3.03 healing amp (first life)
    -----
    359 hit points healed for 22 spell points


    Pally past lives can push this total further, over 400 if you have all three. Using a crafted devotion +66 trinket instead of a shamanic fetish gets you over 300 on a first life.

    Torc will give you back 22 spell points every handful of incoming physical attacks, which pushes this build into nigh-unkillable territory when combined with its good saves and evasion. Unyielding Sentinel's first autogrant, Vigor of Battle: Sentinel Stance, allows easy solo torc farming.

  3. #3
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    Here are some gear ideas to consider:


    All Levels
    Crafted Devotion Trinket of Melee Alacrity (can be made unbound for you)


    Low Levels
    Boots of the Mire
    Ring of the Mire
    Sacred Band
    Nightforge Gorget
    Carnifex
    Sword of the Thirty (slot devotion in the red slot)


    Mid Levels
    Teraza's Perfect Sight
    Maenya's Iron Fists
    Katra's Razor Wit
    Vampiric Cleaver
    Cloak of Invisibility (from tempest spine)
    Whirlwind (slot devotion in the red slot)


    High Levels
    Alchemist's Crown
    Alchemist's Pendant
    Fabricator's Gauntlets
    Fabricator's Bracers
    Cannith Boots of Propulsion


    Epic Levels
    Hide of the Goristro
    Purple Dragon Knight Gloves
    Healing amp bracers (levik's, or lootgen "convalescent")
    Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
    EE Shamanic Fetish w/green slot: Resistance +7

    Here's the gear I use:

    Head: Cove Hat: Superior False Life of Concentration +15 w/Kobold Haste IV
    Eyes: Crafted Blindness Ward goggles of True Seeing w/LGA: +20 HP
    Neck: Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
    Back: Epic Cloak of Night
    Wrist: Convalescent of Superior Parrying w/eldritch ritual: +1 Saves
    Hand: Purple Dragon Knight Gloves
    Waist: Concordant Opposition (25 hp, 100 sp, +3 cha skills, +2 con skills, +1 str skills)
    Feet: Cannith Boots of Propulsion
    Ring: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Charisma +6, Archmagi)
    Ring: Epic Ring of the Buccaneer (Heavy Fort)
    Trinket: EE Shamanic Fetish w/green: Resistance +7 (Placeholder with crafted: Devotion +66 of Resistance +5)
    Armor: Hide of the Goristro (+8 con, 10% tendon slice)

    My weapons are currently the following, but I still check the ah for any good upgrades. Once risia comes and I icy burst these, upgrades will be tough to find, I think.

    Standard: +6 Holy Burst falchion of Superior Bloodletting
    Neutrals: +4 Impellent falchion of Greater Bloodletting
    Plus an assortment of crafted dr breakers.

    My alt's name is Ellischalice. That name was chosen way back when KotC was a viable prestige. MyDDO is bugged and likely never to work again, but here's a link anyway. YourDDO is a player version that actually works, so here's a link for him on that.


    If you don't own much (or any) content and this is one of your alts, I would buy the following packs, in order:

    1) Red Fens
    2) Attack on Stormreach
    3) Vale of Twilight
    4) Secrets of the Artificers
    5) Epic Destinies
    6) Demon Sands

    The first two aren't super expensive, making them attainable goals. If you need to farm up a complete sora kell set and a vampiric cleaver from 'Stormreach, this will end up generating enough xp to get to Vale. Once capped with the 'Secrets sets and possibly a gs item, plus the first Unyielding Sentinel destiny autogrant, you'll be able to solo farm torc from demon sands. Sands will also help with getting to Vale without quite as much grind on subsequent alts or lives.

    This list of packs isn't just useful for this build, but a wide range of builds:
    - Red Fens has good stuff for all builds, plus it is an epic pack to help with farming destiny xp.
    - Attack on Stormreach has very good melee weapons, sora kell is great for divines, some fantastic monk items, and even a caster stick that could be of use for arcanes.
    - Vale is great for everyone, of course.
    - Secrets has solid first-life endgame sets for just about any build in the game. (Melee, arcane, divine, specialists.)
    - Demon Sands is mostly good for torc, but it also has a few other tasty items. But it's also great to help with leveling xp to get to Vale.

  4. #4
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    It is a lovely build! A few questions...
    1. What do you think about Maximize instead of Empower Healing? Even after you get all your heal amp gear set, I think it would be a big help, especially if you have Torc and therefore significant SP regeneration.
    2. I am surprised at no Human Versatility. Just too many clickies, or?
    3. I also wonder if Lightning Reflexes would be a better saves feat investment than Force of Personality, but perhaps that works out to six of one, half dozen the other.

  5. #5
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    I like it. Simple and easily achievable for most people (except for Torc).

    While the build is f2p, a lot of the gear you listed is not, so I'm not sure it is fair to say this is a "completely f2p" character.

    I'm wondering why rogue over paladin? Strictly for the f2p constraints, or do you prefer rogue over monk regardless?

    If so, why? For UMD?

  6. #6
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Healing Amp
    10% hunter of the dead I
    10% hunter of the dead II
    10% hunter of the dead III

    5% pally past life
    5% pally past life
    5% pally past life
    -----
    344%
    As far as I know these are not calculated multiplicatively, so it would be 30%HotD, and 15% 3x pl.

    Which works out to 333%

    But a 10% item does stack with the ship buff, so if you can slot it somewhere, thats 366%

  7. #7
    Community Member fTdOmen's Avatar
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    I'd probably swap improved / greater 2hf for cleave / great cleave, and swap out stunning blow for overwhelming crit.

    otherwise it's a nice template for a new player.
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  8. #8
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    Great feedback all. I'll consolidate my responses to a single post:


    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I'd probably swap improved / greater 2hf for cleave / great cleave, and swap out stunning blow for overwhelming crit.
    This is a great suggestion, and one I will definitely add as an "or" alternative in the feat selection.

    I'm trying to decide if I'd rather drop extend instead of stunning blow, though. I really, really like having extend, but it would stink to equip a +10 stunning item and not have stunning blow.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    As far as I know these are not calculated multiplicatively, so it would be 30%HotD, and 15% 3x pl.

    Which works out to 333%

    But a 10% item does stack with the ship buff, so if you can slot it somewhere, thats 366%
    My experience is that the three HotD tiers are counted individually based on switching my build around to "placeholder" item amp I hadn't acquired yet. Slotting in a 20% item and switching back to KotC, I had slightly lower amp than before the item with tier 2 HotD. (This was before I just committed to going hotD full time.) This stacking is also supported by wiki.



    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    While the build is f2p, a lot of the gear you listed is not, so I'm not sure it is fair to say this is a "completely f2p" character.
    This is a fair point; I've edited the OP to note that the gear part isn't completely f2p, plus added a quick suggestion list of "first packs to buy" to the gear list to help guide new players. The packs I recommend aren't limited to only being useful to this build, because that would be a disservice to new players.



    I'm wondering why rogue over paladin? Strictly for the f2p constraints, or do you prefer rogue over monk regardless?

    If so, why? For UMD?
    Originally it was for F2P constraints, as this was my first alt and I didn't own monks for over a year. I stand by the rogue choice now, though, mainly for UMD. No-fail heal/GH/raise scrolls without requiring any gear swaps is quite nice. Also for open lock, especially for new players because they tend to get annoyed when they can't open locked doors. And finally, granted this is shallow, but I get annoyed by "you are not centered" messages.

    Speaking of open locks, I added a paragraph to the OP describing how much open lock you need. I remember as a new player hating the idea of not being able to open locks so I originally put tons of ranks into OL, not realizing that you only need a few ranks to get most of them.

    Just for clarification, even though I own monk now, if/when I TR this build into the same for more past life amp, I will be staying with 2 rogue instead of 2 monk.

  9. #9
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    Oops, missed this one and the previous post is already pretty bulky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    1. What do you think about Maximize instead of Empower Healing? Even after you get all your heal amp gear set, I think it would be a big help, especially if you have Torc and therefore significant SP regeneration.
    I am firmly against maximize for this build. The extra 15 sp for maximize almost doubles the cost (37 sp vs 22 sp) but doesn't add an equivalent amount of healing. This build as written can quickly toss in a cure moderate after the cure serious if you really need more healing right away, or use one of its 4 (or 7!) Lay On Hands for an immediate no-fail 600 hit points to cover emergencies.

    With empower healing spell instead of maximize, (and extend!,) it is much easier to keep Divine Favor and Zeal running 24/7 while having plenty of mana left over to heal yourself without worrying about your blue bar.

    2. I am surprised at no Human Versatility. Just too many clickies, or?
    Okay, it's confession time: I don't actually have haste boost on my build, either. I went with the +2 trap saves instead, but I just couldn't in good conscience not recommend haste boost for new players.

    Human Versatility is phenomenal; my tempest trapmonkey loves it to death. On a first life build, it would be easy to drop toughness III and switch in Human Vers II, and this would indeed be an improvement. Probably a significant one. For my setup, I just don't have enough hotkeys to make this work, but that's a self-imposed problem.

    Hmmmm, I thihnk I should add that in for new player, but would like feedback on how to fit it in for people who have a +3 cha tome to unlock DMIII. Would HV2 be better than DM3, or is there something else I could drop to fit it in?


    3. I also wonder if Lightning Reflexes would be a better saves feat investment than Force of Personality, but perhaps that works out to six of one, half dozen the other.
    This build ends up with all three saves being roughly the same, which I like in a "this build has high saves" kind of way. My tempest trapmonkey has "low will saves" listed as a weakness, which is fine; doesn't break the build. I just like the high will saves for this guy so I don't have to worry about a particular weakness.

    Though now that I'm thinking about it, I think the best advice to fit in great cleave would be to drop force of personality, extend and GTHF. I likely won't do this on my build, but it's absolutely a viable way to go.

  10. #10
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's my current final gearset plan:

    Head: Cove Hat: Superior False Life of Concentration +15 w/Kobold Haste IV
    Eyes: Tharne's Goggles
    Neck: Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
    Back: Epic Cloak of Night
    Wrist: Convalescent of Superior Parrying
    Hand: Purple Dragon Knight Gloves
    Waist: Concordant Opposition (25 hp, 100 sp, +3 cha skills, +2 con skills, +1 str skills)
    Feet: Cannith Boots of Propulsion
    Ring: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Charisma +6, Wizardry VI)
    Ring: Epic Ring of the Buccaneer (Heavy Fort)
    Trinket: Crafted: Devotion +66 of Resistance +5
    Armor: Hide of the Goristro (+8 con, +10 stunning)
    For comparison, this is what my 18Pal/2Mnk Human wears. (He's similarly healing-focused as your build)
    Head: Epic Mask of Comedy (+6 Cha, +90 Devotion, Major Healing Lore, Yellow Slot (still empty, to be filled with GFL if I want to swap away from Knost))
    Eyes: Concordant Opposition (Wizardry VI, 150 sp, +5 cha skills, +1 int skills, +6 Wis)
    Neck: Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
    Back: MinII 45 HP
    Wrist: Convalescent of Superior Parrying
    Hand: Purple Dragon Knight Gloves
    Waist: Knost's Belt
    Feet: Cannith Boots of Propulsion
    Ring: Kilau's Band (+6 Dex, +1 Ewis, Holy Burst)
    Ring: Encrusted Ring (+6 Str, +1 Estr, +2 Istr)
    Trinket: VoM/Pouch of Jerky
    Armor: Spider-Spun (+15 Conc, +6 Res, Tougnhess +3 iWis)
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 10-16-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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    I like that gearset a lot.

    Since I mostly solo, the one absolute deal-breaker for me is that I must equip melee alacrity. This is why I'm still wearing Fabricator's even though I have enough comms for the PDK gloves and my tasty conv of sup parry bracers are gathering dust in the bank. Until I pick up my goristro, fabricator's has to stay. This is largely a non-issue for non-soloers, though.

    Based on Kilau's, I'm guessing you fight unarmed? If so, you can get some of that alacrity through stance. Does wind stance doublestrike stack with zeal?

  12. #12
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I like that gearset a lot.

    (...)

    Based on Kilau's, I'm guessing you fight unarmed? If so, you can get some of that alacrity through stance. Does wind stance doublestrike stack with zeal?
    Thanks!

    Yes, indeed. I swapped from dual Khopeshes to Unarmed with the free u14 LR. Wind double strike stacks with zeal, indeed. More doublestrike can be achieved via GMoF. When in wind stance, I'm looking at 18.5% doublestrike chance, without any items.

    My full feat list is the following, in no particular order: Toughness, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:Bludgeoning, Quicken, Maximize, Stunning Fist, Stunning Blow, Precision (will eventually swap to PA), Dodge, Great Strength.

    Giving up one of the stunners and the last two for OC is an option, but not too attractive to me.
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  13. #13
    Community Member magnvix's Avatar
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    What would you think about a sword and board version of this build?

    Too gimp?

    Viable?

    Different feats?

    I've been playing without a shield for years now, and I'd really like to use one again, but I like what this build has to offer.

    Also, throughout leveling, all light armor?

  14. #14
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    I like the build. It seems easy to run with (which is good as a possibility as I am unfamiliar with playing melee). How would you modify the build for TRs? Would you?

    When I built it up a bit, based on info in this thread, I went:
    STR: 18, DEX: 11, CON: 14, INT: 11, CHA: 15 (Wis: 8) mostly to capitalize on a full set of +3 tomes.

    Feats for heroic levels:
    Tough/PA
    Cleave
    Two-handed Fighting
    IC: Slashing
    Great Cleave
    Empower Heal
    Improved Two-handed fighting

    Only question I have is how much twitchiness is required? Lots of clickies, or more buff-and-go?

  15. #15
    Community Member unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnvix View Post
    What would you think about a sword and board version of this build?
    Certainly doable: just trade, say, Stunning Blow and FOP for the shield feats. I would probably go DoS and make a cheapsauce hatetank; less about AC than it is about threat, self-heals, and some PRR. The main thing I don't like is the feat shortage; normally I'd prefer monk 2 / pal 18 to get two extra feats as well as Evasion. [Or ftr 2 if you don't have monk and stick w/classic S&B.]
    Also, throughout leveling, all light armor?
    Hvy armor until you get rogue 2 / Evasion, then switch to light, I would say.

    Something like this:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
    (18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 334
    Spell Points: 230 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 22
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             16                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Epic feats: GTHF and something else (Quicken maybe)

    Use hvy shields until your UMD is high enough for Master's Touch scrolls; at which pt you can start using tower shields instead.

    EDIT: same basic idea with ftr instead of rog splash. I like that I don't have to backload some of the feats so much; plus using hvy armor + tower shield means higher PRR & AC. Downside is losing Evasion and 12 ranks of UMD.
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 342
    Spell Points: 230 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 25
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    25
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             16                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
    Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
    Now have 3 feats to play with: e.g., Cleave/GC/Overwhelming Crit for more DPS; Quik/Max/Emp Heal for better self-heals. Could LR/GR into Dark Knight if/when you have eCF (tho I gather it's no longer the bee's knees among S&B tanking weapons).
    Last edited by unbongwah; 10-18-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzor View Post
    I like the build. It seems easy to run with (which is good as a possibility as I am unfamiliar with playing melee). How would you modify the build for TRs? Would you?

    When I built it up a bit, based on info in this thread, I went:
    STR: 18, DEX: 11, CON: 14, INT: 11, CHA: 15 (Wis: 8) mostly to capitalize on a full set of +3 tomes.
    I TRed from this build into this build, and listed the stats I went with. I only have +3 str and cha tomes, though with +2s on the rest. I like how you modified dex and int for +3 tomes; looks solid.

    Feats for heroic levels:
    Tough/PA
    Cleave
    Two-handed Fighting
    IC: Slashing
    Great Cleave
    Empower Heal
    Improved Two-handed fighting

    Only question I have is how much twitchiness is required? Lots of clickies, or more buff-and-go?
    Well, divine might is an annoying buff. It takes forever to cast and only lasts a minute. This build gets you 20+ clickies of divine might so you can keep it running, but clicking a slow-casting buff every 60 seconds can get tedious. Extend really helps alleviate the tedium of divine favor and zeal, which last ~4 minutes with extend or ~2 minutes without. Extend isn't required though.

    I think I might go GTHF and Overwhelming Critical for your epic feats given those heroic feats. You can survive without GTHF though if you want a tactical feat to capitalize on the goristro hide or extend to improve your "quality of life."

    As for actual combat, spam your divine sacrifice every 3 seconds and save your smites for bosses. It ends up being much less clickie-intensive than, say, monks, but it's a lot more than just clicking rage and going.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnvix View Post
    What would you think about a sword and board version of this build?

    Too gimp?

    Viable?

    Different feats?

    I've been playing without a shield for years now, and I'd really like to use one again, but I like what this build has to offer.

    Also, throughout leveling, all light armor?
    unbongwah makes solid suggestions, but frankly I just wouldn't splash rogue or go Hunter of the Dead for a S&B pally. Instead, splash 2 fighter (18/2) for 2 feats + free tower shield prof and go Defender of Siberys. And try to farm up eFang.

    This isn't a S&B build, really.

  18. #18
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    Okay, opinion time, anybody welcome but particularly Kinerd and unbongwah:

    I'm thinking maybe dropping Improved Recovery III (6 AP) for Human Versatility III (6 AP). Stinks to lose healing amp of any kind, but human vers 3 is quite powerful. What do you guys think?

    The alternative is dropping wand & scroll mastery I for human versatility I.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Okay, opinion time, anybody welcome but particularly Kinerd and unbongwah:

    I'm thinking maybe dropping Improved Recovery III (6 AP) for Human Versatility III (6 AP). Stinks to lose healing amp of any kind, but human vers 3 is quite powerful. What do you guys think?

    The alternative is dropping wand & scroll mastery I for human versatility I.
    Another option would be to drop the divine might line. I like Human Versatility quite a lot.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Well, divine might is an annoying buff. It takes forever to cast and only lasts a minute. This build gets you 20+ clickies of divine might so you can keep it running, but clicking a slow-casting buff every 60 seconds can get tedious. Extend really helps alleviate the tedium of divine favor and zeal, which last ~4 minutes with extend or ~2 minutes without. Extend isn't required though.

    I think I might go GTHF and Overwhelming Critical for your epic feats given those heroic feats. You can survive without GTHF though if you want a tactical feat to capitalize on the goristro hide or extend to improve your "quality of life."

    As for actual combat, spam your divine sacrifice every 3 seconds and save your smites for bosses. It ends up being much less clickie-intensive than, say, monks, but it's a lot more than just clicking rage and going.
    I guess a better question would be if it was valuable to be mixing extend in. I guess what I am looking for is a build which is solid, and I can learn melee with, but if I don't want to go twitch I can deal with. Aka - How important is divine might? How much can I get by if I don't feel like clicking buttons every 90 seconds? I understand I lose some power, but how much?

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