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  1. #1
    Community Member TheLallian's Avatar
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    Default Etiquette in parties

    The lack of etiquette from too large a number of players, even high level players, is appalling. This has prompted me to start a topic of discussion on writing up a guideline for etiquette in quests.
    Last edited by TheLallian; 04-30-2011 at 10:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member TheLallian's Avatar
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    Advertising for a party on the group panel:
    • Use the dungeon quest list to show which quest you are doing.
    • Select the difficulty level that you intend to do the quest on.
    • If you are doing an open area, specify which one in the comments.
    • If the quest is P2P, put that into the comments.
    • If players need to be flagged for the quest, put that into the comments.
    • If players may not get XP, put that into the comments.
    • If you are doing a chain, put that into the comments.

    Leader Responsibilities
    • Keep the party advert updated with what classes are needed.
    • Keep the party advert alive until it is full. Sometimes someone drops out of a full party and the posting needs to be updated again.
    • Do not accept high level players that will mean that the lowest level players will not get XP unless the party advert explicitly states no XP.
    • If the party is not filling up quickly and players are waiting, the leader should search the social panel for players flagged as looking for a game.
    • If someone responds to join the party that the leader does not accept, then DECLINE promptly and do not leave them hanging. Send a tell with reason if appropriate.
    • Do not send blind invites! Send a /tell first with the details and ask if that player is interested.
    • Assign roles where needed before they are needed.

    Joining Party
    • Ensure you have enough time available to complete the quest
    • Don’t join a quest and then ask questions about should you join. Use /tell to the leader first.
    • Don’t join a quest if you are outside of the requested parameters of level and class.
    • If you are new to the quest, inform the group.
    • Get to the quest quickly, don't keep the group waiting on you, especially if you are the last to join (only get ship buffs if there is time and its required for the quest).

    Entering Quest
    • Leader to open quest and select difficulty.
    • Always check with leader if it is ok to summon a hireling before doing so.
    • If you are a late joiner, say “I’m in”, once you have entered the quest. The rest of the party may be waiting for you to enter before acting on something.

    Game Play
    • If you do not know the quest, don’t activate anything (pull levers, talk to NPCs, open chests, etc). Either ask or wait for someone else to do it.
    • In quests where there are specific items that need to be collected, leave it to the leader to do this or the leader will appoint someone.
    • Do not be surprised if healers do not heal players that are zerging. They are not going to waste their spell points on idiots.
    • Always have some sort of self sufficiency before starting a quest. Make sure you have heals and other potions, wands, scrolls as necessary. Do not expect casters and healers to baby-sit you.
    • Unless the quest is a Free For All, do not wander off and do your own thing. Stick with the group.

    Buffing
    • When entering a quest there are often mass buffs. Stay in place and do not run around or move on.
    • The last buff in mass buffs should be “haste”.
    • Sometimes only certain players need specific buffs. If the caster is offering these, anyone that does not need it should move back out of the way. If you need to identify yourself to a caster, stay in place and jump on the spot. Once you have received the buffs, stop jumping and move away.
    • Buffers shrine last. Wait until everyone else has shrined and then use whatever spell points you have left to buff them before shrining yourself. If you have finished shrining and would like buffs, group together just to the side of the shrine.

    Opening Chests
    • Do not open chests until everyone of the party is in the quest instance.
    • If someone has just been disconnected, do not open chests, wait until they have reconnected AND active in the quest.
    • Don't open chests before the area has been cleared of all mobs.

    Rolling
    • Certain loot items are 'bind to character' and exclusive, so if a player already has the item, or it is not suitable for their class, they may choose to give the item to someone else in the party.
    • Players are entitled to their own loot and further entitled to distribute it directly to whomever else they so choose (e.g. a guild member or a friend)
    • If the player decides to make the item available to other players in the party, the player will ask players to 'roll' for the item and award it to the player with the highest roll. Do this promptly or stand to lose out.
    • Players interested in rolling for an item need to type, e.g., '/roll d100', into the party chat window, which will generate a random number between 1 and 100.
    • Typically the standard roll is d100, and if nothing is said then you can assume it be so. However when there is, or likely to be, more than one item up for roll, the offerer will qualify the roll for his or her item by saying, e.g., 'roll d99' or 'roll 50'. This is so that the party can see which rolls done by the players are for which item.
    • Do not greed roll (roll for an item that you don't need or can't use). The player putting up an item for roll may ignore any roll that he considers to be a greed roll (e.g. rolling for an item outside of your class).
    • Should you win a roll, please do not forget to thank the player that gave the item to you.

    Leaving Quest
    • If you need to leave before the quest is finished, always give a reason before exiting. It is rude to just disappear.

    Disconnections
    • Unfortunately this happens to all of us at some time. If someone in your group gets disconnected, be fair to the player that helped you and your party get to where you are. Wait a reasonable time to allow the player to reconnect before removing them. Do not open chests if a player is disconnected as they will not get it.
    • If you have been disconnected, let the group know when you are back with a "I'm back".
    • If the leader disconnects, the star gets reassigned. When the leader reconnects, give the star back.
    • If you are leaving a party, do so properly with ‘leave party’ command before disconnecting.

    Voice and Microphone
    • Let the party know if you are unable to hear voice chat.
    • Do not use an open mic ("Hands Free Voice" in Audio Settings) instead keep with push-to-talk. The group does not want to hear everything in your background and it can drown out what others are saying.

    DO NOT
    • Join a group and leave merely to reset your own instance.
    • Come along for a free ride, do nothing, and hope to get the XP and loot.
    • Leave part-way through a quest to respond to a guild call or whatever. You have committed to the group and are duty bound to see it through to completion. This applies to dungeon quests and does not apply to open areas, Free For All and Come And Go.

    ---------------------

    A lot of abbreviations or single words are used as shorthand. You need to familiarise yourself with the more common ones.

    Standard Terminology
    • AFK (Away From Keyboard) - To inform your group when you are not active for a short period.
    • BB (Bravery Bonus) - Running quests on Hard or Elite difficulty for Bravery Bonuses.
    • BYOH (Bring Your Own Heals) - Be able to keep yourself alive, usually because the group does not have a healer.
    • 'Come and Go' – Players are welcome to join in and leave at anytime with no expectations, free for all. Usually for open areas where players are getting explorer points, rares and slayers. Note: Players don’t wait for you to enter before opening chests.
    • 'Don’t Run Ahead' – Usually said by someone who knows the quest and is telling newbs not to run ahead as this may trigger traps, mobs, etc.
    • ETA (Estimated Time to Arrive) - How long you estimate it will take you to arrive.
    • F2P (Free 2 Play) – Quest is available for free-to-play players.
    • 'Farm' – Repeatedly doing a quest for loot (sometimes for XP). Players Recall and Reset Instance. Beware there may be no XP for loot farming.
    • 'Fast Run' – A quest done at speed to get the main objectives. Know your way and what to do and be self-sufficient. Not for first-timers.
    • 'Favor Run' - Players are doing the quest for the favor points. The quests are usually done on Elite by players with a higher level than the quest so there tends to be no XP.
    • 'Free For All' - Everyone can do their own thing, include opening chests (though polite to wait for all players to be in the quest before opening). Usually in open areas.
    • 'Flagged' – Players need to be flagged for the quest, i.e., be able to enter the quest having done all the pre-requisites quests and actions etc. (these quests cannot be shared)
    • FO (Finish Out) – To finish out of a completed quest.
    • 'Guide' – Posted when someone is looking for a more experienced player to show them around a quest and help with quest objectives.
    • 'Hug' - Group together. Usually for group buffs.
    • IP - In Progress (the quest is already underway).
    • 'Know The Quest' – Used on party adverts to inform players that they must know the quest before joining.
    • LFM (Looking For Members) – A post in the social panel for party formation.
    • 'Loot Run' - Players are doing the quest for the loot drops with no regard for XP. Depending on the quest, the difficulty can be normal/hard/elite.
    • N/H/E (Normal/Hard/Elite?) - Question asking what difficulty the quest is going to be done at. If asked by the leader, putting the question to the rest of the group for suggestions.
    • 'No XP' – No XP will be earned for the quest. This happens when players are at a higher level than the max for the quest.
    • OMW (On My Way) - To inform your party that you are on your way to them.
    • 'Opener' – Someone that can open or share the quest. Often used when the player is looking to open a quest at a higher difficulty level than they are able to, e.g., elite opener.
    • P2P (Pay 2 Play) – Quest is only available to pay-to-play players or players that have purchased the pack.
    • PUG (Pick Up Group) – Party formed from general public as opposed to known players, friends and guild mates.
    • RC (Recall) – To recall out of a quest before it is finished (as opposed to FO).
    • 'Reset Instance' – To join and leave a party or leave and rejoin a party so as to reset the quest instance as opposed to waiting the 5 minutes for DDO to reset it.
    • 'Share' – Request for someone to share the quest.
    • S/R/E (Slayer/Rare/Explorer) - Running wilderness objectives.
    • 'Star' - The star on the player’s party icon that indicates who is the leader.
    • 'Use Or Lose' – A shrine that players should use because there is no coming back to it later.
    Last edited by TheLallian; 03-25-2012 at 04:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member TheLallian's Avatar
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    Default My personal pet bugbears!

    Of the above, these are the ones that irritate me the most (personal rant here)

    1. When players open chests before everyone is in.
    2. Players that do not know the quest that activate levers, talk to NPCs, run ahead and get aggro, etc. without checking with the rest of the party.
    3. When players leave mid-way through a quest without saying anything.

    I would love to be able to kick out players while on a quest that are messing it up for everyone else!

  4. #4
    Community Member Kepli_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    /signed

    I'm sure there's much more to include, can't think of anything right now. Good luck, there will be plenty of folks upset with you, but obviuosly there are many who don't know simple etiquette. +1, at least for the effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
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  5. #5
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Default

    Joining Party
    - If you have a limited amount of time available, do not join a quest you know takes longer than said time window then yell at the Raid party constantly to hurry up because you have to go.
    “If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.”

  6. #6

    Default

    Do not open chests until everyone of the party is in the quest instance.
    • If someone has just been disconnected, do not open chests, wait until they have reconnected.
    People who pop chests with party members out of the zone go on my permanent do-not-group list. It's complete dbag behavior that I do not tolerate.

    Further, when someone disconnects, you do not just wait until you see the "X has reconnected" message and then instantly pop the chest. That message appears sometimes 2-3 MINUTES before the person is actually back in the game, and opening a chest in that time will cut them out of the contents. Wait until they are speaking or moving, or otherwise actually fully inside the game.

  7. #7
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Default

    Please add -

    Designate roles before zoning in to the quest.

    I was told "Dreckler, tank Sulu" in a VoD pug run the other day. Not so bad, but it was done when Sulu appeared for the first time. I had never pulled the agro on Sulu before, and had some questions that I had to figure out for myself. It would have been better to have a little notice.

  8. #8
    Community Member toughguyjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLallian View Post
    • Leave part-way through a quest to respond to a guild call or whatever. You have committed to the group and are duty bound to see it through to completion. This applies to dungeon quests and does not apply to open areas, FFA and CAG.
    You might want to restate this to the obvious: RL matters take priority over finishing a quest.

    Also, No one is "Duty Bound" to finish a quest with a group. Its a game. If your guild calls you, and really needs you...where does your Loyalty Lie? Five Pugs or the raid group of your friends who need you?
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    Why should I care about what none friends think? It really not like anythink they do are say in this game really affects me.

  9. #9
    Community Member LazarusPossum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLallian View Post
    Joining Party

    • Don’t join a quest and then ask questions. Use /tell to the leader first.

    There should also be a sub-rule to this, where the party leader shouldn't send an invite until he/she knows if the invitee understands what kind of party they are being invited to (i.e. "Can you help us open this lock/disable this trap?").

    As a rogue, I hate dropping what I'm doing to run to another house only to find that someone needed me to help them with a specific trap or lock, with no real regard to my presence after it's popped.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Baloran's Avatar
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    Default

    Very good points, although most of them should be obvious for everybody without having to read a code.

    Please add:
    No blind invites! If you are the leader and you want to fill party, send a /tell to a player first and ask if he wants to join a specific quest, before you invite him.

    Concerning your last point, perhaps add:
    If you want to go, bc you have a guild call, it is polite to ask the leader if it is okay.

  11. #11
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    /signed! Great job mate! I even added this to my Guild laws. Perhaps, with enough entire Guilds on board we can change the face of Arraki...err, DDO..heh
    There is an "Alternate" Forum, PM Strakeln for details.
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    I really like this idea and agree with almost everything. But I do have one minor quibble. You call this etiquette, but a lot of it is actually strategy. For example, buffers shrining last is a strategic course of action, it has nothing to do with appropriate behavior. Letting people know you are inside a quest if you are late to join is a good example of etiquette. It's polite to let everyone know that you are ready to join so that they are not waiting around for you. That aside, great list.

  13. #13
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLallian View Post
    Advertising for a party on the group panel:
    • If the quest is P2P, put that into the comments. Why? They get a "buy me" if they don't have it
    • If players need to be flagged for the quest, put that into the comments I'll buy that if its not a raid, raids they can figure that out on their own.
    • If players may not get XP, put that into the comments. Why? The reasons for not getting XP are all in the LFM if they read it (quest level, level range, etc)

    • If the party is not filling up quickly and players are waiting, the leader should search the social panel for players looking for a game. lord that's annoying. If I want to join your party, I'll check the LFM, don't send me tells.

    • Don’t join a quest and then ask questions. Use /tell to the leader first. I'll probably ignore you. If you want to join, join. You can ask in party chat if you have specific questions about the quest.
    • Don’t join a quest if you are outside of the requested parameters of level and class. Send a /tell to the leader first to enquire. Stop sending me tells. I am doing other things while putting the group together. If you want to join, click. I can read your level in the invite request

    • The person who breaks the breakable is entitled to its contents. Don’t steal the item from a breakable from someone else. Wait until it is clear that they don’t want it before collecting. Grab what you want, we don't need a long slow down.

    Opening Chests
    • Wait for the leader to open chests. why?

    Leaving Quest
    • Leader should not exit the party until everyone is out and can see where the reward giver is. why? He's not a nanny. They get the reward where they picked up the quest


    A lot of abbreviations or single words are used as shorthand. You need to familiarise yourself with the more common ones. Might be your server, but I haven't seen many of those used

    • Zerg – To run around amok killing monsters with little regard to defence. That's not what zerg means to most experienced players in this game
    The thing about your set of rules is they are your set. Some are reasonable, others are the opposite of what I think is polite. That's why your code of conduct idea can't work on a large scale.

    Basic rules - try not to be a jerk or people won't party with you. Don't tell people how to play or they won't party with you. If you are new, listen and learn, or they won't party with you.

  14. #14
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Lorien, Are you purposely trying to be difficult? Why put that info in an LFM? ??? Have you never been in a party where people kept joining a P2P quest and had to drop because they didn't have it? Never been in a raid group someone joined who wasn't flagged? Have you had the best luck ever to never have this happen? The whole party suffers when you step into VoN 5 only to find the 2 healers aren't flagged this happened before F2P it is not a new phenomenon. It takes what 5 extra seconds and a handful of key strokes to add the extra info to the LFM saving everyone time and frustration. It's called being helpful...

    I'll skip the don't send me tells bit...it's polite and most people wouldn't mind answering a question...

    Grab what you want...I think you missed the point it wasn't about slowing down to grab 3 copper but if someone is standing over something running up and grabbing it isn't polite behavior and may create conflict.

    The point on chests is to prevent opening a chest if everyone isn't in. I prefer not starting till everyone is in and letting the rogue get the chests if we have one...in case I forgot this one was in fact trapped.

    I agree on the recall except for certain exceptions like TS where you make sure no one was blown off first. The whole quest sharing thing has made people a little soft on knowing were things are.
    Last edited by Eladiun; 04-06-2010 at 09:49 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default

    Loriens not trying to be difficult, he just seems to have a firm grip on reality.


    Many of the "Rules" are redundant, pointless, or borderline rude.

    you also run into the tiny issue that 95% of the game population dont visit the forums on a regular basis and will have absolutely no idea what any of this conversation is.
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  16. #16
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    Default

    Must agree with Lorien here.

  17. #17
    Founder coolpenguin410's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Lorien. The first paragraph of the OP's "rules" can be found easily in the LFM. As long as you select the quest you're running, it's the F2P or Premium player's responsibility to notice that 'Buy Now!' button. Also, you learn that if the LFM advertises for level 4 higher than your's, you're going to take a hit on XP. Same with being over the level of the quest.

    I disagree with Lorien's comment about tells though. I'm never so busy or receive so many tells, even on my cleric, that I can't find a moment to respond with a "no thanks" if I'm not inclined to join a group.

    However, to each their own.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Lorien on several of his points.

    When you look at the LFM you can see the level of those in the party, most of the time that should tell about xp.

    Do not send me blind invites, I find them annoying.

    If I look at the lfm I can set it to show me just the ones in my level range and class and if I am f2p it with tell me if I need to buy the content, as long as the group leader set the lfm up properly.

    "The person who breaks the breakable is entitled to its contents. Don’t steal the item from a breakable from someone else. Wait until it is clear that they don’t want it before collecting. Grab what you want, we don't need a long slow down. "

    The content of the breakables are small and no one should be upset if another grabs yours +2 arrows or 37 silver pieces. Just grab and go.

    "Wait for the leader to open chests. why?" I agree why? As long as everyone is in the dungeon, just open it.


    "Leader should not exit the party until everyone is out and can see where the reward giver is. why? He's not a nanny. They get the reward where they picked up the quest"

    When you leave a quest it is pretty easy to find the end reward, it shows it on the map for you and the person has a green check mark on them. If a person has trouble finding it, it is their responsibility to ask.


    "A lot of abbreviations or single words are used as shorthand. You need to familiarize yourself with the more common ones. Might be your server, but I haven't seen many of those used"

    How about do not use abbreviations at all? Use the voice chat or type it out so there is no confusion. Really eliminating a few letters does not save time when someone else has to ask what you mean.

    "Zerg – To run around amok killing monsters with little regard to defence. That's not what zerg means to most experienced players in this game"
    Zerg to me means, know the quest because we are moving fast to get favor or farm ingredients. So keep up and be able to handle the dungeon.

  19. #19
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    I disagree... if they were redundant or pointless it wouldn't need to be posted. Yes, 2 -3 years ago redundant and pointless but now...not so much. Group etiquette has gone down hill...to the point were it is surprising how rude and uncooperative some people are. Asking why to put P2P in an LFM or why to put no XP seems disingenuous...we all complain about people not know the game and then do nothing to prevent our own frustration. Yes, the XP mechanics should be easy to figure out but did everyone know this on day one. There is a level of Elitism to this...now if they don't actually read it that's a horse of a different color.

    Now, on the 95% thing you have a point but if a few do and pass it on or make it part of their guild bylaws as one did. It will spread even if it doesn't posting iIt doesn't hurt anything... even if you don't agree on all the points most aren't so off base as to be wrong. Sending tells to fill a party...borderline but it's nothing new...it's why most Clerics go Anonymous. Yes, don't pull levers if you don't know the quest seems like common sense but we all know that isn't very common. Even if it only reaches a few people isn't it better to at least try to educate people...if you think the OP is wrong why not explain you reasoning rather than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    • Zerg – To run around amok killing monsters with little regard to defence. That's not what zerg means to most experienced players in this game
    ...does it take more effort to give your explanation of a zerg to you or just dismiss the OP.
    Last edited by Eladiun; 04-06-2010 at 10:50 AM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Anderei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    L Have you never been in a party where people kept joining a P2P quest and had to drop because they didn't have it?
    That is because people dont select the quest, they just write "deleras" in comments, (maybe p2p where many newbs dont know what it means) and then anger when they discover they cannot join in.

    Instead of writing "deleras" in comments, select "Delera's Tomb: The Missing Party" from the list, and anybody not having the package, sees a big "buy me" sign over the class list in the LFM.

    Also disagree with some of the rules. The party leader is neither my nanny nor my commander. While I do appreciate a leadership on raids, or on quests where at least some players don't know it by hearth, the star does not mean you are on a powertrip. E.g. Altough I usually advertise parties as "normal", and I don't care much about farming XP, I still ask the group what the majority of the group wants to do. When 3 people say, "meh" on normal I could solo it as well at the same time, enter in hard.

    The main rule I learned in this game is, everybody should have some freedoms on their own decissions. For example Tempest Spine, while you can tell a blown of newb, "forget the chests at the top, they are not worth it", give him/her the option of their own decission, tell them you think its not worth it, but when they still want them, its their decission you kind of respect.

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