Please Feather take some time to rethink the EGH raid loot !!!

As it stands Me and my closest guildies are feeling that theres nothing left to run for And some are already planning on breaks Or on them already waiting for something uber ala enhancments pass .

Now i myself as well as many other forumites more persistant then me have posted numerous threads and posts based on this subject alone .

When loot is all we have left to crave in ddo " at least 10 % of us on here and 75 percent of forumites ", why not cater too your fans ? !! Why not just make these items comparable too citw loot ?

An augment doesn't make up for crit profiles and effects and base dmg .

/sign if you agree

We're in the boat now where all we have left to grind for are heroic commendations. That's gonna get old quick.

The eGH loot is a disappointment considering all are reporting the raid is fun as hell.

I'd rather a fun raid and bad loot than a bad raid and fun loot. But how long is a raid fun for... twice? Three times tops? How many times do we have to run it for commendations, 200 times like CitW? That would make it pretty unfun.

CiTW... I got my base bows on my archers and chose not to do anymore of them the extra damage is not worth the PITA it is to run this raid, I really don't see why they try to keep this thing on life support by adding commendation turn-ins.

Hell I have 3 heroics on my Tr, which is never gonna even bother to ge the favor to unlock the base sets... CiTW was a failure of a raid, an amalgame of the worse mechanics with bad drop rates.

EGH looks promising and far more fun, I still run Shroud after all this time, because it's fun and has nice loot I hope the new raid wil lfollow that.

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Originally Posted by Ape_Man

We're in the boat now where all we have left to grind for are heroic commendations. That's gonna get old quick.

The eGH loot is a disappointment considering all are reporting the raid is fun as hell.

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As much as I'd sign the OP because he was very detailed in what was the problem, people should stop saying that "eGH loot is a disappointment". This is not true.

eGH RAID LOOT is a disappointment. eGH quest's loot is good, Flawless armors are good, raid loot isn't.

Opened and closed OT, I hope everyone agrees with that (if you don't, then you are just upset that YOU don't like the loot but that doesn't that the loot is bad) (referred to everyone, not you Ape_Man :) )

Back in topic, /signed. Raid loot is disappointing and some of them (Halcyon Boots, Greatsword, the Shield Rebellion) really need something else to be worth something.

I was looking over the list last night one by one and only a few items jumped out at me. Its been months since i have ran epics so my characters are still sporting pre-MOTU epic gear like Abishai. In a couple months ill be back to doing epics and looking to upgrade my gear. Ill have a lot of "catching up" to do. Overall, EGH sounds like it could be fun to run, but the loot doesnt seem thrilling to me.

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Originally Posted by Qhualor

I was looking over the list last night one by one and only a few items jumped out at me. Its been months since i have ran epics so my characters are still sporting pre-MOTU epic gear like Abishai. In a couple months ill be back to doing epics and looking to upgrade my gear. Ill have a lot of "catching up" to do. Overall, EGH sounds like it could be fun to run, but the loot doesnt seem thrilling to me.

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Some of the EGH loot is awesome (my sorc is wanting that EE ghost-walking cloak...as well as half the other items on EE - the only thing I will want the blue scale though is a filler until I can get my greenscale done...the 10% cost reduction is much more powerful than anything on the armor)...but the raid loot is just sad.

The raid loot is an abomination. Quest stuff is pretty decent (with emphasis seeming to go toward that cloak), although I only have my eyes set on maybe 3-4 items for my characters.

/signed

Well...

People made specific suggestions and supporting reasons for the Blue armor. Lo and behold, Feather listened and upgraded!

I can imagine it's hard for him to listen to the forums when all he gets is "Hey, your work sucks, get a clue dude." Especially after he's probably worked his tail off on this for a while now.

So, rather than have topics that generically deride and belittle, a more specific write up like what was done in other threads might garner a better response.

Initially, I thought just the weapons in the raid (some of the weapons in the quests as well) needed to be updated, but the forumites made very good arguments in the loot threads about how the gear (non weapons) in the raid was also not very exciting overall as well. They convinced me that the raid items overall needs an overhaul and a few of the weapons in the quests as well (for e.g. khopesh). As was pointed out by another poster we all apreciate your upgrading the armor which made them all more appealing. Hopefully some of the raid items could get a bump as well. Thanks for reading and I sign the OP's suggestion.

My complaint of the loot table for egh is 2 fold
a) the epic items are not related to the normal heroic items, I need a whole new set of scales for my dragon armor, instead of just being able to epic out my current armor, or storm reaver napkin/tablecloth.
These are static items that should be up-gradable to epic versions if the pack is getting an epic edition instead of having to farm whole new sets of items
b) My 2nd complaint is not just the egh loot table but the loot table for all the new epic content. Its ridiculous to see an epic item then see an epic hard and then an epic elite version of the same item.
This makes loot an us w/ dedicated guild support vs the loser less than dedicated player lacking dedicated guild support to farm an item on elite difficulty.
You want to add some special abilities for the player, make them farm some heroism accommodations to upgrade it to tier 2 or 3, or have them unlocked if found on a higher difficulty quest.
This multi tier loot item for the same item is creating a two tier game and means the more casual, less farming dedicated player is leaving the game. not to mention, once I get the epic elite vesrion of a piece of loot, I'm never going to do the quest again, so you've wasted all those hours of development. We're going to end up with more dead quests
I feel like I wasted my time farming and saving scales, relics, and various items from the current GH raid to have them be completely useless in relation to the new epic Gianthold

The current system of farming scrolls/seals/shards, might be flawed and unfair, but at least all players have a chance for the same epic item, its not based upon the difficulty that you managed to run/farm a quest on.

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Originally Posted by SofiaNRage

My complaint of the loot table for egh is 2 fold
a) the epic items are not related to the normal heroic items, I need a whole new set of scales for my dragon armor, instead of just being able to epic out my current armor, or storm reaver napkin/tablecloth.
These are static items that should be up-gradable to epic versions if the pack is getting an epic edition instead of having to farm whole new sets of items
b) My 2nd complaint is not just the egh loot table but the loot table for all the new epic content. Its ridiculous to see an epic item then see an epic hard and then an epic elite version of the same item.
This makes loot an us w/ dedicated guild support vs the loser less than dedicated player lacking dedicated guild support to farm an item on elite difficulty.
You want to add some special abilities for the player, make them farm some heroism accommodations to upgrade it to tier 2 or 3, or have them unlocked if found on a higher difficulty quest.
This multi tier loot item for the same item is creating a two tier game and means the more casual, less farming dedicated player is leaving the game. not to mention, once I get the epic elite vesrion of a piece of loot, I'm never going to do the quest again, so you've wasted all those hours of development. We're going to end up with more dead quests
I feel like I wasted my time farming and saving scales, relics, and various items from the current GH raid to have them be completely useless in relation to the new epic Gianthold

The current system of farming scrolls/seals/shards, might be flawed and unfair, but at least all players have a chance for the same epic item, its not based upon the difficulty that you managed to run/farm a quest on.

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I have to disagree completely with both of your points here.

With regards to your first point, I much prefer the option to go loot a brand new item than having to go loot a shard from somewhere, a seal from somewhere else, and wait for a scroll to randomly drop for me if I don't drop tons of plat on one. Plus, by finding a new item, it means that I can also use the heroic version of the item if/when I TR that character, because I will still have it, instead of turning it in for a new one.

With regards to your second point, The normal/hard/elite tiers of items is one of the best things that FoS has done with the loot system. Those of us who either don't want to or can't run EE can still get a decent chance at getting loot, albeit slightly weaker loot, by running on EH or EN. Those that can run on EE get their better reward for running the harder difficulty, which makes them happy, without that reward being so much better than the normal or hard version to cause a rift between the two groups. The elite versions are better enough to be worth having, but not so good as to "require" farming only EE for loot, while relegating EN/EH loot to the vendor.

If the only reason you run a quest is to get a single piece of EE loot for one of your characters, then perhaps that quest/quest loot was designed for you and your single character. There are other people who play this game, with different play styles than yours, and this current tiered loot system will satisfy them and you at the same time. Allof the scales and relics you farmed up were, in fact, not a waste of time. With the improvements to the dragon and relic armors now, you can make some for an alt if you have one, or you can sell them on the AH, or you can use the relics to purchase augments from the new vendors in GH.

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Originally Posted by shadereaper33

I have to disagree completely with both of your points here.

With regards to your first point, I much prefer the option to go loot a brand new item than having to go loot a shard from somewhere, a seal from somewhere else, and wait for a scroll to randomly drop for me if I don't drop tons of plat on one. Plus, by finding a new item, it means that I can also use the heroic version of the item if/when I TR that character, because I will still have it, instead of turning it in for a new one.

With regards to your second point, The normal/hard/elite tiers of items is one of the best things that FoS has done with the loot system. Those of us who either don't want to or can't run EE can still get a decent chance at getting loot, albeit slightly weaker loot, by running on EH or EN. Those that can run on EE get their better reward for running the harder difficulty, which makes them happy, without that reward being so much better than the normal or hard version to cause a rift between the two groups. The elite versions are better enough to be worth having, but not so good as to "require" farming only EE for loot, while relegating EN/EH loot to the vendor.

If the only reason you run a quest is to get a single piece of EE loot for one of your characters, then perhaps that quest/quest loot was designed for you and your single character. There are other people who play this game, with different play styles than yours, and this current tiered loot system will satisfy them and you at the same time. Allof the scales and relics you farmed up were, in fact, not a waste of time. With the improvements to the dragon and relic armors now, you can make some for an alt if you have one, or you can sell them on the AH, or you can use the relics to purchase augments from the new vendors in GH.

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IMHO, whoever complains about the EN/EH/EE Items is because they can't get the top tier items so they come and cry on the forum.

It's always been and will always be like that.

Also, first she says "Once you get EE items you never run the quest" then "make them upgrade EN/EH versions via Heroic commendation" -> Basically, even in her 2nd scenario, the quest will never be run again. Go figure :rolleyes: Just a troll-ish attempt to get the items to the top tier without actually working for it.

I can assure you, I've got basically all EE loot in High road at some point, more than once. And I will still continue to run the quests to run them, get them, sell them and make money.

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Originally Posted by SofiaNRage

My complaint of the loot table for egh is 2 fold
a) the epic items are not related to the normal heroic items, I need a whole new set of scales for my dragon armor, instead of just being able to epic out my current armor, or storm reaver napkin/tablecloth.
These are static items that should be up-gradable to epic versions if the pack is getting an epic edition instead of having to farm whole new sets of items
b) My 2nd complaint is not just the egh loot table but the loot table for all the new epic content. Its ridiculous to see an epic item then see an epic hard and then an epic elite version of the same item.
This makes loot an us w/ dedicated guild support vs the loser less than dedicated player lacking dedicated guild support to farm an item on elite difficulty.
You want to add some special abilities for the player, make them farm some heroism accommodations to upgrade it to tier 2 or 3, or have them unlocked if found on a higher difficulty quest.
This multi tier loot item for the same item is creating a two tier game and means the more casual, less farming dedicated player is leaving the game. not to mention, once I get the epic elite vesrion of a piece of loot, I'm never going to do the quest again, so you've wasted all those hours of development. We're going to end up with more dead quests
I feel like I wasted my time farming and saving scales, relics, and various items from the current GH raid to have them be completely useless in relation to the new epic Gianthold

The current system of farming scrolls/seals/shards, might be flawed and unfair, but at least all players have a chance for the same epic item, its not based upon the difficulty that you managed to run/farm a quest on.

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I agree that the raid loot seems unappealing. Party because it feels like a sidestep rather then an upgrade. But I like the EN/EH/EE versions. Keep in mind that you can sell these. if you don't like what you got you can drop it on AH for someone else. And eventually there will be EE version on the AH or for trade. I detest the shard, seal and scroll system with a passion. It's awful. I don't know how many times I started to grind for an interesting item just to run into a broken buggy system like the Lord of Dust stuff that is more buggy then flies on a turd. What I could see however is a way to upgrade from say a EN to EH or a EH to EE version. Maybe involve a heroic accomendation and the lower version or something like that. That should allow people to find another way to upgrade the power of the version. But lets not wish for the old system back - it is horrible.

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Originally Posted by Tid12

IMHO, whoever complains about the EN/EH/EE Items is because they can't get the top tier items so they come and cry on the forum.

It's always been and will always be like that.

Also, first she says "Once you get EE items you never run the quest" then "make them upgrade EN/EH versions via Heroic commendation" -> Basically, even in her 2nd scenario, the quest will never be run again. Go figure :rolleyes: Just a troll-ish attempt to get the items to the top tier without actually working for it.

I can assure you, I've got basically all EE loot in High road at some point, more than once. And I will still continue to run the quests to run them, get them, sell them and make money.

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I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists

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Originally Posted by SofiaNRage

I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists

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On that note, I'd actually say the raid system they cooked up serves the purpose excellently. Run it as high as you can handle, and grind for mats to upgrade it from there. Perhaps extending the system to the walk-ups with 20x3 relics per tier would serve, with an eye long term to use a similar system for current legacy epics? (It honestly has always struck me as more than a little loony to get rewarded the best items for running the highest difficulty after you've just finished ransacking that same difficulty without the items, after all. Not to mention counterproductive when it comes to setting a difficulty level.)


That being said, still waiting on an answer as to what the intent is for the changes to the boots. Could spit-ball notions all day long on the things, but without knowing what the man was going for, it'd be a massive waste of time.

/Signed.

Raid loot is just disappointing.

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Originally Posted by SofiaNRage

My complaint of the loot table for egh is 2 fold
a) the epic items are not related to the normal heroic items, I need a whole new set of scales for my dragon armor, instead of just being able to epic out my current armor, or storm reaver napkin/tablecloth.
These are static items that should be up-gradable to epic versions if the pack is getting an epic edition instead of having to farm whole new sets of items
b) My 2nd complaint is not just the egh loot table but the loot table for all the new epic content. Its ridiculous to see an epic item then see an epic hard and then an epic elite version of the same item.
This makes loot an us w/ dedicated guild support vs the loser less than dedicated player lacking dedicated guild support to farm an item on elite difficulty.
You want to add some special abilities for the player, make them farm some heroism accommodations to upgrade it to tier 2 or 3, or have them unlocked if found on a higher difficulty quest.
This multi tier loot item for the same item is creating a two tier game and means the more casual, less farming dedicated player is leaving the game. not to mention, once I get the epic elite vesrion of a piece of loot, I'm never going to do the quest again, so you've wasted all those hours of development. We're going to end up with more dead quests
I feel like I wasted my time farming and saving scales, relics, and various items from the current GH raid to have them be completely useless in relation to the new epic Gianthold

The current system of farming scrolls/seals/shards, might be flawed and unfair, but at least all players have a chance for the same epic item, its not based upon the difficulty that you managed to run/farm a quest on.

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Let's NEVER go back to the debacle of having the same loot on EN as EE.

That basically removes EE from the game as people capable of running it are too often too minmax-focused to run it when you can just run four EH runs in the same time one EE run takes.


As for the loot - the weapons and the Halcyon Boots are rubbish. Pretty much everything else has a niche. If the accessories got made universally better, they'd obsolete more and more old items, effectively removing more and more old content from endgame. Our endgame isn't large or varied enough to contemplate this.

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Originally Posted by sirgog

they'd obsolete more and more old items, effectively removing more and more old content from endgame. Our endgame isn't large or varied enough to contemplate this.

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And then we would have more threads complaining how new stuff ruined the old stuff, and then even more threads asking for the old stuff to get a makeover. It just depends on the day of the week.

It's a never ending cycle on the forums.

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Originally Posted by SofiaNRage

I'm glad you have the time to farm some EE loot, so to made to feel gimp because i don't have the same time or guildies willing to farm something, makes me less willing to play the game or even spend any more money for future updates, and it doesn't make me less of a player. I should be able to get the same level of gear even if its over a longer span of time, not to feel sub par because I can only get in a pug group that can do en or eh, I'm willing to farm commendations to spend for the upgrade, but I should be penalized because I don't have guild/friend depth to help me get EE loot.
Even the elite farming players are only willing to hard farm if they can't get their friends to come. This muloi tiered loot table will chase away the more casual player, because they feel gimpy when they receive subpar version of an EE item. If there's no way to get the same quality of item, then theres less reason to get the item or invest time in the game
I've never seen a EE item in the ah or offered for trade, and the en/eh versions are not worth the plat being asked for such a sub par item when a better version of the item exists

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So you haven't the time, you haven't actually run them on elite and you still want Elite loot?

The elite players will do them in a pug if they are really elite. They are not that hard even in a complete pug. I was running EE quests before I joined a channel. They were done completely in pugs and we still got them down. The quests last ~20 mins in a good group, 45 max if party is really bad. Not that long imho.

The casual players SHOULDN'T FEEL the need to have Elite loot. Why you need the best of the best loot when you run a sub-par difficulty?

Check the forum trade of your server. You will see many, many threads about people selling EE version of U15-U16 chains and they only cost max 6 FGDS/FRDS in most cases (except for something like Ivy Wraps, going for 15+ FRDS/FGDS). Are you going to say you haven't 6 FRDS/FGDS? They come from an easy raid/quest that can be done by anyone in a pug.

If you want something, you need to work for it. Work meaning either run the quests and get it or run other quests, sell goodies and buy the loot you want.

This is kinda off-topic so I'll stop here. I see your reasons but I don't think they should stop the EN/EH/EE loot. It gives players reasons to run EE quests.