Kyle "FordyTwo" Horner: Why did the DDO team decide to do Challenges with Update 12?

Ian "MadFloyd" Currie: Well, I think one of the reasons we wanted to do Challenges is we took a quick temperature reading with Crystal Cove. I think any game going on as long as DDO has can always use a little infusion of a different game mechanic. All our dungeons are very unique and different from each other in that they're all hand crafted. And we've got wilderness areas and raids, but we just wanted to bring something different to the table. 

One of the things that I really wanted to see was more gameplay that gives players agency to control their outcomes and actually do more planning, which I think appeals to a lot of min/max players. It's not unlike an MMO in general where you say, "Well gee, what do I do today?" One of the greatest things about MMOs is you do have a lot of freedom in deciding what you want to do at any given moment. But, a lot of the times when you're in a dungeon – and there are good reasons for this, because we're trying to tell a story, etc – you're reacting to what the designers are throwing at you while trying to travel from A to Z.

With Challenges, you have goals that we've set, but the degree of success in accomplishing those goals is really put into the player's hands. There's some discovery and some learning about how the rules within each Challenge works, but once you do understand them, you can hopefully work them to your advantage. And the fact that they theoretically unfold differently every time because they're more akin to small strategy games makes it a really interesting variation for players.


Kyle: So Challenges aren't meant to supplant questing and story, but instead another way to play DDO.

Ian: That's a very good point. I think our bread and butter are hand-crafted quests. Challenges are really just additional flavors. We know that Challenges aren't for everybody. We know that even though Crystal Cove was very successful – lots of positive feedback – there's no one thing that will unanimously appeal to everybody, and we recognize that. It is the case that in Update 12 we're only offering Challenges and there are no additional story quests, but subsequent updates won't just be Challenges. We may return to Challenges, and we'd like to because we think they're fun to develop and play, but we'll see how the player reaction goes.

Kyle: Thankfully we've got a great Community team, so I'm sure you'll hear all about what players think about Challenges.

Ian: Yep!

Kyle: So let's dig into some of the Challenges next. Seeing as they were a collaborative effort, who wants to go first?

FlimsyFirewood: Well, the first Challenge I did was the Lava Cave Kobolds- I'm not sure what the final name is, but the idea is that this was the closest to the original Crystal Cove Challenge for the Pirate event.

Kyle: Oh yeah, I remember seeing a preview of that a while back.

FlimsyFirewood:  Right and the main mechanic is a two-way teleporter. There's this platform that was built by giants, and it can be activated to make a two-way teleporter connection that will let a giant through. The way it works is every time you go through the Challenge there is a number of circles that are randomly placed in the dungeon, and if you put your regular Kobold teleporter in one of those circles it establishes a two-way connection; players and monsters can use it to get back to the base.

This dungeon is much larger than the original Crystal Cove, so without them there was no way you could get everything you wanted.

The second Challenge I did is called Dr. Rushmore's Magnificent Mansion, and it's basically based on that really high-level ridiculous D&D spell where the high-level wizard summons up a mansion for his party to rest in- except this wizard happen to be a bad guy and you are trying to break into his mansion.

Kyle: So this isn't a very friendly mansion.

FlimsyFirewood: No, it's not. The idea here is that – without going back into the whole story – you have limited time to wreak as much havoc as you can. There's a party of high-level adventurers resting in the mansion and they're all in different rooms. So you're trying to find at least one of them and kill them before time runs out. If you fail that in the basic mansion, you need to at least break open four doors. And the doors have a unique mechanic to them involving gates, crests and sockets - but everything's random each time you play it. You're basically juggling lots of keys and fitting them into the locks you can to open them.


Kyle: So you're mixing up the mechanics between Challenges as much as possible.

FlimsyFirewood: Yes, we definitely don't want all Challenges to be about Kobolds, as fun as they are.

Kyle: As much as we all love killing Kobolds or helping Kobolds- or Kobolds in general.

Amanda "Tolero" Grow: Dating Kobolds …

Kyle: K-date!

All: [Laughter]

FlimsyFirewood: All Challenges now have different mechanics. They're not all about collecting crystals.

Phil “The Rocking Dead” Speer: Kobolds were just the most logical choice for mine.

Kyle: Well hey, there's nothing wrong with Kobolds! Plus that's a great segue; let's talk about the Kobolds in your Challenge, Phil.

Phil: It uses them in a completely different way. There are Kobolds – they're still integral to the Challenge – but instead of using the Kobolds to help you collect something, you're collecting something from the Kobolds.

Kyle: Interesting!

Phil: So in this Challenge you're tasked with extracting Dragonshards from the ground on an island that's full of rich deposits, and you're using House Cannith machines to do so.

Kyle: Well, I'd like to imagine there's a competition going on between different contractors, a whole story behind the story.

Phil: Yes. So these extractors are placed on the island, near rich deposits of Dragonshards. However, the machines are initially inactive; in order to activate a machine you have to get mechanical parts. To get those parts, you have to kill Kobold scavengers, because they're hoarding parts. So you go around to these Kobold camps, you kill them, and there's a chance they'll drop some parts. Some camps have Kobold idols that you can desecrate. When you do so, it'll drive away all the Kobolds from the camp forever (they'll never respawn there) but you'll get some parts immediately.

So, you're going around, killing Kobolds and none of them are giving you any parts. At this point you're just like, "Hey, I need parts right now." So you can destroy one of these camps and boom you've got parts immediately.

Kyle: At the expense of never seeing any new Kobolds respawning from the camp where the idol was destroyed.

Phil: Yeah, so it's an interesting trade-off.

Kyle: Very much a tactical choice.

Phil: At some point, you're running out of time and you have to map your best potential route to success. Not every camp has one of these idols; we didn't want players to hinder their entire progress.

Kyle: That would be very bad.

Phil: Exactly, only about half of the camps have idols that can be destroyed. After you get parts you can go to an Extractor and use them to activate it. The Extractor immediately begins producing Dragonshards but at a slow rate. All Extractors start at level one. You’ll want to extract as many Dragonshards as possible, so you go and collect more parts and use some of the Dragonshards your Extractor has produced to upgrade it to Level 2, which generates Dragonshards at a much higher rate. Now that’s all fine and good for the time being, but because you want to go for the big haul, you need to branch out, find and activate a Large Extractor. These are gigantic Extractors that cost a lot of resources to start up, but quickly prove their worth, since they produce even more Dragonshards at an even higher rate – and you can upgrade these Large Extractors all the way to Level 3!

At the same time, you can also choose to purchase and place Magefire Cannons around your extractors to help defend them while you’re away collecting resources and starting up new Extraction sites. So, it becomes an interesting game of managing resources and protecting your assets. There’s a lot of strategy to this mode. I like to think of it as Action-packed Multi-point Tower Defense with a DDO twist.


Kyle: How does the addition of Power Ups play into these new Challenges?

Ian: Power Ups definitely add variety. They're another tool for players to use in Challenges, and we think it's a fun tool. Challenges are there in the spirit of having a fun time.

FlimsyFirewood: They make everything awesome!

Phil: Power Ups were something that we came up with; I had it in my original [Challenge design] for Dragonshard Defense because I wanted something else for the player to do. We all talked about it and said, "We want Power Ups in everything!" because they're great and so much fun.

FlimsyFirewood: Quad damaaaaaage!

All: [Laughter]

Ian: You're trying to get as many resources out of Challenges as you can, but you're also trying to make sure you succeed or beat a previous high score. Power Ups are interesting because there's a randomness involved with them, you can't always count on them.

Phil: And the System Team came up with all these great Power Ups.

Kyle: It's nice to mix things up! And they're randomized, right?

Phil: Yeah, and they play into the Defense Challenges really well because you're defending your extractor from monster attacks and all the sudden this Power Up shows up somewhere on the map, and you want that Power Up, but you've got to leave your extractor vulnerable to get that Power Up, or coordinate with your team so someone grabs it.

Ian: There's definitely skill involved with a lot of Challenges, but it's sort of like a card game where you add a wildcard to make things interesting.

Phil: It's one of those things where, because Power Ups are so cool, everyone wants them. So within the team, sure it makes more sense for one class to get it over another, but that doesn't mean that one party member won't go for it anyway.

Kyle: You always have that one wily warforged player.

Phil: Yeah, the warforged barbarian runs off to grab a powerup, and thinks he can get back to the extractor in time to defend it.


Kyle: Because barbarians can do anything on their own, clearly! Steve, what was your role in the creation of U12's Challenges?

Steve "Steelstar" Rogers: My role in the Challenges was to take the base Challenges and create alternate versions with slightly different variants.

Kyle: On the face of it, "creating alternates" doesn't sound like a super-flashy job, but adding them creates a significant amount of replayability.

Steve: Yeah we want Challenges to be different enough to stay interesting through repeat plays, but also have familiarity so players don't feel lost from Challenge to Challenge. The first one I did was the Time Foreman. He's a time-travelling Kobold- you know, travels through time and space setting wrongs right.

Kyle: Personally, I'd like to see variants of the Time Foreman with a scarf, 3D glasses or a bow tie.

Both: [Laughter]

Steve: Bow ties are great.

Kyle: Bow ties are cool!

Steve: Yeah! Bow ties are cool.

Phil: He does have a top hat and monocle.

Kyle: Well okay, top hat and monocle are good enough for me. Sorry, I didn't mean to derail that. Time Foreman!

Steve: So the Time Foreman- He functions like the regular foreman (sells extra kobold workers, barrels, etc) but he also sells you extra time, because in the Time Foreman variants you start with only five minutes on the clock, which isn't a whole lot of time to get much crystal collecting done. However, for a sizable number of crystals, the Time Foreman will sell you three extra minutes. At first it's fairly inexpensive- it's only about five crystals to add those three minutes; but the next time you want more time, he'll charge you more for it. So eventually players come to a point where they have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.

Kyle: When should you cash out and when should you invest, basically.

Steve: Right, because often times you'll be really close to another batch of purple crystals but the timer will be getting low.

Kyle: Aside from the Time Foreman, who I kind of want a t-shirt of, now-

Phil: [Laughs] Yes!

FlimsyFirewood: Actually, the Time Foreman has a cameo appearance in one of the variants of the Mansion Challenge. He sells you buffs, which you can just pick from a list, and they'll buff you once- but he sells the buffs to you for your time.

All: [Laughter]

FlimsyFirewood: Your actual time on the clock decreases as he sells them to you.

Kyle: That's great!

FlimsyFirewood: The way he explains is it, "Well, it's got to come from somewhere!"

Kyle: Any good time traveler knows energy cannot be created or destroyed, so it sounds like he knows what he's doing.

FlimsyFirewood: Oh yes.

Phil: Definitely.


Kyle: Can we expect to see the Time Foreman appear in future Challenges?

Steve: Oh, sure. Whenever time is involved you may see the Time Foreman hanging around. It could be possible that you could kill a younger version of him for parts, in mine. I hope not!

Both: [Laughter]

Steve: As a young fledgling kobold, he never gets to experience his full potential.

Kyle: I imagine time kobolds could be a mysterious and deep type of kobolds. We just don't know.

Amanda: He could be the Traveler for all we know. The Traveler likes to disguise himself and do crazy things.

Kyle: Yeah, there's a lot below the surface of the Time Foreman that we just don't see. So, who'd like to go over Azure Motes first?

Steve: Those were something that we added as part of the Star Objectives for U12 Challenges. Each Challenge has optional Star Objectives you can complete-

Phil: And they vary per variant, too.

Steve: Yeah, they're each different.

Kyle: But they're set for each variant?

Steve: Yes, each variant has on particular set of Star Objectives, and Azure Motes are one of them. In certain Challenges there are these little blue motes that just kind of float there, and in order to get the star for finding all the Azure Motes you've gotta run around the map and find all of them. And they're in different places each time you play, so you're never guaranteed to see them in the same place twice.

Phil: So kind of the idea of these Star Objectives is to give you an extra layer of challenge.

Kyle: For the play who has mastered Challenges and wants that next level – Challenge, plus.

Phil: It's basically Challenge "plus". You go in there and you've completed a Challenge and got your rewards. Now, you've got Star Objectives, but they're kind of counter-productive to the main objective. With the Azure Motes, you're choosing to run around and look for motes instead of babysitting your kobolds. So it's all about offering these interesting choices for players.

Kyle: So maybe you assign someone on the team to "Mote Collector".

Phil: Right, but now you've got one less person to help when say, a boss shows up.

Steve: It's this constant stream of choices that players will have to make throughout a Challenge.

Kyle: So how do you guys figure out creature types for the Challenges?

Phil: It kind of depends. I know for the island defense Challenge I wanted each variant to have a different set of monsters, so you could clearly distinguish between them and change up tactics based on that; fighting sahuagin is different than fighting undead.

And at some point we also decide, "Hey we haven't used this monster much, so let's feature it here." That creates an interesting Challenge because you don't face this monster all the time. For instance, in one of my variants there's a giant skeleton that shows up and shuts down all the extractors, because he's a disruptor-

Kyle: [Sighs] Skeletons.

Phil: He pops out of the ground, too.

Kyle: I've never trusted skeletons, just sayin'.

Phil: Well, they are animated bones of the dead. Not much to trust there.

Kyle: True, skeletons have never been very trustworthy, but that's just a vindictive-sounding skeleton.

Phil: And once you kill the giant skeleton all the extractors start up again.

Kyle: We all know that in D&D you can never trust a skeleton. So what's the current minimum level on Challenges? Level four?

Steve: It's level four, yeah. One of the interesting things about Update 12 is that it has something for almost every level. We wanted to make sure a new character with veteran status can jump right off the airship and get into Challenges.

FlimsyFirewood: One of the things about all the Challenges is their difficulties have a broad range, so you can solo them and get something out of it. However, if you want to push yourself with a full group, you can try for the star objectives and brag about them.

Amanda: One of the challenges for the DDO team was explaining the mechanics without the standard Dungeon Master.

Kyle: That's a very interesting topic, yeah.

Amanda: Yeah, normally you're in a really creepy place and the DM can hint at a mechanic.

Kyle: The Challenges feel more "Arena-y".

Phil: Which is fine; Challenges do have a lore wrapper.

Amanda: They do have a great lore wrapper, but for the most part the Challenges are, "Okay, you know this is a game mechanic and so do we- let's see how good you are at this."

Steve: There's still ways to communicate it. In Crystal Cove you had the Foreman shouting "Incoming!"

Phil: It's a little more abstract, I suppose. It's not like a DM is coming through your headset saying, "You've entered a large room." It's less DM as a storyteller and more a DM as a method of feedback.

Amanda: Yeah, and we've got a nice rules page for players to check out before going in, so they know what's up. And for the lore thing, I like to see it as a "Mission Impossible" kind of thing. You know, "Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to jump in and do 'this,' 'this,' and 'this'- go!"

FlimsyFirewood: A good example is one of the variants in the mansion there is a lot of DM text because part of the variant is instead of bosses sitting in their rooms, they move around the mansion. So at one point in the Challenge, a boss might decide, "I'm going to the bathroom now." And so the text will tell you, and if you know where the bathroom is then you can go there and kill that boss.

Phil: I really don't want to catch an ogre in the bathroom, sorry.

All: [Laughter]

Amanda: Yeaaaah.

Kyle: Or a monster, of any kind.

FlimsyFirewood: It could be a Star Objective!

Kyle: That would be an objective that you wouldn't necessarily want to do.

Amanda: It's a challenge!

All: [Laughter]

FlimsyFirewood: It's for the high score.

Kyle: Making sacrifices for that high score.


FlimsyFirewood: The one last thing I want to mention is that we have a lot more tech with regards to quest times. All those time extensions and reductions are something we'll see in regular     quests as well.  In the mansion, every time you open a door, you go through a checkpoint that gives you an extra two minutes.

Steve: We're working on new optional mission objective tech for the whole game.

FlimsyFirewood: Yes, the optionals that can be failed.

Kyle: Oooh. It's always nice when technology can be redistributed throughout the game. Challenges are great, but they certainly don't seem to be overtaking DDO.

Amanda: We're still always going to make awesome hand-crafted content.

Kyle: Right now Challenges are themed with a great variety of flavors. They have this wrapper of story and lore around them, but as time goes on can you see experimenting with them more?

Ian: It's possible that in the future we might insert a Challenge inside a series of dungeons where there is a story being told. But, our first foray into the new mechanic was on a more abstract level where we concentrated on creating fun and re-playable experience for players. The lore wrapping is somewhat secondary.

Kyle: It's nice to have that, as a DDO player. IF you jump in and feel like, "I really want to play through this new Adventure Pack." Other times you might only want to play an hour or less, so completing a favorite Challenge is more appealing.

Ian: Right and that's sort of the idea. It's sort of like a live event where almost anything goes. This is a live event year round and so players don't have to overindulge on it because it's limited to only a week or two. It also supports a wide level range and therefore players can partake here and there, and not worry it's going to go away – with some really juicy loot rewards.

Kyle: Yeah, I saw the loot tables and went, "Whoa." I'm really looking forward to playing it with a live character.

Ian: Yeah, me too!

Kyle: That was a great deal of talk on Challenges. Thanks for your time, guys!

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